A few swashi questions - Page 3

Woruuden · 03-30-2008, 01:00 PM

Since I got my mythical if I do not put my transfer on someone in my group I pull agro pretty much every fight. When not in MT grp I run MC ignorant bliss, spam my deagros when ever they are up, even have the tinkering deagro and 3 FD's. This is with the MT having either a dirge + coercer or a dirge + assassin. Although when I am in MT grp I do not pull agro even on encounter when I drop 5K +.

I do not know what to say about your swash, other than put him in MT grp have him take off the deagro proc and run turgur + enfeeb + caustic and go ballz out. If that does not work consider recruiting a new swash.

Temptation`VV · 03-31-2008, 03:44 PM

I have a few things to point out here..

I run MT grp 99% of the time. I run without Avoid up. I run Turgor Caustic and Gracelessness. I do not get moderated. I can say that I have and can pull agro just not very often. I do not do this of course.. ( smash <--swashi down). However if I am running in scout grp witch normaly consists of Assasin Brigand Swash(me) Dirge Zerker Inquis, I have to realy watch myself with agro. Even with the hate transfer on the Zerk I pull it quite frequently when I do not control myself.

Reason I run in MT grp. Coercer gives tank a hate gain and dirge does the same, but a tank does not strike all sorrounding mobs and has to tab target them to either directly hit them or taunt them.. (yes i know a guard has AOE taunts, but only 2). Proctectors Realm for instance; the grp encounter with Meldrath and the rest, if your tank is not keeping a constant agro on the scout and mage that you are fighting they like to go run around and play bop the mole with members of your raid. As a swash with hate xfer, when i AOE or Hurricane Procs, I transfer 19-27% hate from not just one mob but multiple mobs to the tank. thus allowing him to maintain a higher agro hold on them.. Now in single target encounters like Thuuga, I would rather run in the Scout grp because I can get more buffs and higher DPS.

Does Deagro transfer more hate to xfer point (no).
Do Brigs generate more hate than a swash (hard to say, I would say equal)
Does our Hate come souly from Damage (no, debuffs generate hate also)

Mendanbar · 04-01-2008, 12:53 AM

A) Yes, swashbucklers generate more hate than assassins. The debuffs are a huge portion of that. I don't know that the developers have ever quantified exactly how much they affect hate (for example, 1 point of healing is < 1 point of damage on the hate scale), but they definitely affect hate.

Brigands DO generate more hate than swashbucklers. As stated previously, a lot of the swash additional hate comes via debuffs which are by and large a reflection of CA damage. Brigs do more CA damage and have much larger debuffs. Additionally, Brigands do huge spike damage, of which swashbucklers have none. Brigs just don't have a hate transfer, so it is obvious why swashbucklers are in the role they are in. (Swashbucklers provide the highest quantity of transferrable hate).

B) Hate and hate caps. There is nothing transfer-related regarding hideaway other than the pre-pull direct hate mechanic that was mentioned above. Additionally, I'm not sure whether your swash fully understands the hate gain mechanics, but, there are two types of hate gain. Hate transfer, and passive hate gain. Hate transfer is exactly what it says, character A generates hate and X% of it is pushed to character B. Passive Hate gain is directly applied to the tank. So if a tank generates 1000 hate, and has a passive hate gain of 36% (has the language "increases hate gain of target by...), they now have 1360 hate. The dirge buff gives passive hate gain (was 42 percent and was nerfed, I believe it's like 36 now). Swashes obviously transfer 18% that gets modified an additional 8% with the mythical, and coercers add 17% to both hate transfer and passive hate gain. The cap on both of these types of hate generation are 50%, so essentially, these are not being capped, with the possible exception of passive hate gain if you have both the dirge and coercer in group. Having said that, the swash role is STILL transfer, so his role would not be mitigated here.

Dixxy · 04-03-2008, 03:33 PM

A slight amendment there Mendanbar, I specifically remember a Patch update like 2 years ago or more now that state explicitly that 1 point of healing is worth 2 points of hate. I believe that 1 point of dmg = 1 point of hate, but of course hate mods and such affect that, so after hate mods, 1 point of healing < 1 point of dmg for hate, but beforehand it is worth 2x the hate.

Mendanbar · 04-04-2008, 01:20 AM

Do you have a link to that? I find that kinda hard to believe... healers would be doing huge spike hate if it were 2x a point of heal in hate.

Dixxy · 04-05-2008, 01:56 PM

It was pre-DoF, if I remember right, so LU 10ish I would guess? I do remember that there were some serious agro issues with the game at that time, that they have since fixed (mostly). So I guess it's more like 3 years ago and not 2.

Dixxy · 04-09-2008, 01:57 PM

Um, I decided to check the archives of Game Updates. GU 2-10 are not there, it jumps from 1 to 11 in the archives. I read through 1, and 11-17 but didn't find anything, except a side note saying that they reduced the amount of hate that dmg/debuff CAs do (LU 14 or 15 i think). :/

Pinski · 04-09-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixxy

It was pre-DoF, if I remember right, so LU 10ish I would guess? I do remember that there were some serious agro issues with the game at that time, that they have since fixed (mostly). So I guess it's more like 3 years ago and not 2.

No, the reason why healer had serious aggro issues was because HoTs actually applied hate to the healer, same with direct heals. Wards and Reactives, however, applied the hate to the person getting healed.

Mendanbar · 04-09-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

No, the reason why healer had serious aggro issues was because HoTs actually applied hate to the healer, same with direct heals. Wards and Reactives, however, applied the hate to the person getting healed.

So is the 2 hate per heal number remotely correct, or is it back closer to the

1 damage = 1 hate > 1 heal?

Pinski · 04-10-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendanbar

So is the 2 hate per heal number remotely correct, or is it back closer to the

1 damage = 1 hate > 1 heal?

No that's wrong, it's 1 hate = 1 damage = 2 heal.