Post 51: Is Bravado worth even having on your buff bar anymore? - Page 2

Scayre · 02-10-2009, 02:27 AM

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Haste should really be your largest focus as a melee class anyway (lucky for us). If you sit at 140 instead of 200 and your weapon delay goes up 10%, you say to yourself, 'hey no big deal it's just 10% less auto damage' - but there's really alot more to it than that. With lag these days are you really going to be able to change your ca timing when your delay goes from 2.4 to 2.8? If that's the case it's not just your weapon damage that took a hit.

That makes no sense to me. Haste should be our largest focus? Before MC? Before proc damage? Before even DA?

MC first, proc gear (in this expansion at least) should be second. Int buffs and gear are important (they increase your poison and proc damage and my str is maxed at ~1100 so don't need that), DA (I can easily get to 100% DA with an illy), DPS buffs (if you need that, perfect finesse and ruthless cunning take care of the gap on named). Spell crit is also huge, as poisons and most procs crit based on spell crit rates. I am sure I am leaving something out, but haste, is easy come easy go. Last on my list.

Scayre · 02-10-2009, 02:55 AM

In any case the thrust of this thread is to get rid of the 5% hate increase from bravado, assuming they go through with the aggro changes currently on test.

Rippit · 02-11-2009, 12:27 AM

What good is 100% double attack and a bunch of nasty procs when you don't have any haste? Haste is basically the foundation for inflicting damage on a mob as quickly as possible. DPSMod doesn't work that way because it only increases your auto attack damage, not the rate at which you hit (think proc rates) or the rate at which you cast between auto attacks.

Edit: Easy come easy go? My monk is a bruiser now which basically leaves me with my haste item and my templar hp buff. Throw in CoB and bravado and i'm still not even capped. What happens when mr. templar wants to use a 2h on trash or one or both of my dirges goes LD while we're clearing trash? Granted if it's the dirge in my group, i'm fucked regardless.. I

JAime · 02-11-2009, 03:04 PM

the reason the hate gain is there, is because it increases the threat that we xfer to the tank, thereby making us more aggro to them. I agree that after these changes it is retarded to continue procing +5 hate gain, if anything it should proc decreased hate mod after the changes with xfer going away...

Scayre · 02-12-2009, 02:29 AM

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if anything it should proc decreased hate mod after the changes with xfer going away...

I completely agree with that. Swashs should not be hamstrung by the changes they make to tank aggro control. The 5% was there for a reason, now that reason is lost, so get rid of it.

They are taking away our hate transfer so give us something to compensate that loss. Swashes will be useless in G1 as the 6th man after the changes (and a druid would be better), and not so useful in G2(a hot assassin can do the 6th man scout job better then us). So give us a reason to exist in G3 or G4.

Mizou · 02-12-2009, 10:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Scayre

They are taking away our hate transfer so give us something to compensate that loss. Swashes will be useless in G1 as the 6th man after the changes (and a druid would be better), and not so useful in G2(a hot assassin can do the 6th man scout job better then us). So give us a reason to exist in G3 or G4.

i cant aggree u here, assassins dont need dps mod - brig swashy ranger do - u would bring in a druid to mt group just cause of a buff for the mt ? this would mean mt is not holding aggro by him self again - for some avatars / mobs u need a 3rd healer ok ok BUT what on trash and nameds where u dont need a 3rd healer ? brig swashy ranger ! all 3 classes will do alot more dps with coercer buffs - well ok briga would need haste more but yeah.

Scayre · 02-13-2009, 01:08 AM

Dirges give more then dps mod/haste. They also increase proc rate (poisons proc more, weapons proc more, gear procs proc more, etc.) which really benefits classes that have a number of procs; troubs also do this. With the changes, assassins get a deaggro proc which is essentially our avoid proc. And dirges increase the proc rate of that as well. Assassins (as far as melee classes go, all other things being equal) put out the most damage so will get the most love as far as buff class grouping is concerned.

As far as haste and DPS are concerned, soft cap is 100, hard cap is 200. Between 100 and 200 both haste and dps you only gain 25% increase to each ability. If you can get both to over 100% focus on other things.

Post hate changes 5% hate increase is significantly greater a detriment then what is gained from 61% haste from bravado. We aint needed in group 1 at all after theses changes, and our (overall) DPS contribution to g2 is arguably less then predators. To group 3 and 4 we go, where we will rarely see a dirge. In those groups you are likely to be grouped with a fury and and illy (or perhaps benched). And if you are grouped with an illy and fury bravado is more a detriment then a utility, post aggro changes of course.

And yeah I raid with a monk, I would be better off raiding with a bruiser.