Tyger

The general concensus seems to be that vampiric adorn is the best DPS. However, I was looking at looking at poisons the other day and remembered that we have a purple poison with magic debuff (Warding Ebb). Since the shard armor Lifetap is magic damage, the Accord charm is magic damage (although really crappy) I decided to try some out. Previously I've been running with only red poison for a long time now (expert's caustic). That got me to thinking that maybe I should switch to magic damage on one of my weapon procs also, to take further advantage of the debuff.

While soloing, I try to use Bound whenever I distance pull a mob, or if everything else is down. I always try to get Bound out when grouping with a mage or with a DPSing divine (like Templar or Pally). While I'm debuffing for them, I may as well up my own DPS, right?

I think that one of the reasons Vampiric is preferred is that it's proc stacks on two weapons whereas the other adorns won't proc if they are the same on both weapons. Is that true? If so, I will still look at getting a magic damage adorn on one of my weapons.

The only reason I haven't tried it yet and parsed on a training dummy is that it's not nearly so cheap to swap out an adorn as it is something like poison or your AA spec. So I wanted to get some input here before I spent the plat. If I get a magic adorn, then go back, I'm looking at 4-5 plat and I'm already looking to upgrade my offhand, so I could be out even more and I'm not that rich.

What do you folks think?

Final question: does anyone know if Bound and poison magic debuff stack for sure? I'm assuming they do (which in my case would be about 3K magic mit debuff, which is pretty dang nice when the wizzy does a burn).

dispatch112

Ok wow, you have a lot to learn young swashbuckler.

First of all the adornments you want to switch to +Magic/Divine I forget whatever is a symbol only adornment. I'm not sure if there is one for mainhand but even if there was it wouldn't help anything. Bound inflicts 0 damage, it is a debuff and a snare. When you are looking at ACT, are you looking at Outgoing Damage (Ref)? Cause this will make your parse look bigger but that is because it makes debuffs and benefial procs count toward your dps which is incorrect. Make sure your looking at only Outgoing Damage.

And yes the poison debuffs and bound will stack. But again even if you can get a +Magic adornment for your mainhand it is indeed a big waste of plat as it does absolutley nothing. Stick to Vampiric.

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She can outbid him on the Dark Orb of the Mind, but can't outparse his pet!

Laalon

Are you saying you only use 1 type of poison? The red one (Caustic)?

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Tyger

Dispatch,
I currently have vampiric pith on both my mainhand and on my offhand . I'm thinking of switching my offhand to +magic damage. I've had the adorn on weapons numerous times in the past, so I'm positive it's not a symbol only adorn and that it does in fact work. I have the freaking logs to prove it. I'm not IG right now, though and I can't remember any part of the name, or I'd link it off lootdb.

What did I say that gave you the impression I thought Bound did any damage?

Thanks for the pointer about Outgoing Damage (Ref) and Outgoing Damage in ACT. I will have to look into that. I always look at Outgoing Damage (Ref) so I've been getting skewed results.


Laalon, yes up until yesterday I've been using only damage poisons for a long time. The debuffs haven't been that helpful and we just have the one ranged attack, so the slow isn't that useful, either (although I'm thinking about it for the final guy in DF - would free me up to do more damage if I didn't have to focus on so much CC).

EDIT: depending on the mob, I sometimes switch (mid-battle, even) between the red poisons. Most often, if the mob has a power drain, I will switch from caustic to mental breach, either before the battle if it's really bad, or during the battle if it comes later.

headbusta

There is a difference the +magic for symbol is boe spell dmg, i believe he is talking about a +16 magic dmg that can be put on weapons which is the same thing as the treasured adorns that do +16 slash or pierce just its easily seperated on the parse LOL. and iirc the +16dmg adorns are not effected by debuffs and will always hit for the same amount.

Laalon

My question would be: Why not use 3 diff poisons rather than using just 1? I mean, granted even if the benefit is minute, there's still more of one than using none.

I'm always using 1 of each (3 total).

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Tyger

For reference, here is a really good resource on poisons: EQ2 Potions & Poisons.

My first question would be: does reducing parry actually increase chance to crit. You would assume so, but since we have a separate critical chance stat, I'm guessing it doesn't, so that shoots down one of the more promising purple poisons (outside of the magical debuff that started this whole thread in the first place). As for the other ones, in the T9 age of hyped stats, reducing INT of either trash or a named by 61 or reducing their crushing by 23, for instance, I don't think gains me or my group even .001 so I don't think it's worth even if they are free. Between caustic poison, tactics and whetstones, I can easily drop 4-5 plat on a raid, so yes, I do see a reason to not add more poisons if they aren't at least giving me 1-2 % more DPS or helping my utility, given that they are guaranteed to cost me more money.

Having said that, one poison I completely overlooked is Stupefying poison, which is odd given that it's T7, so I didn't just miss it because I was gone. Adding yet more stuns to my repetoire is definitely welcome, since I do concentrate on the utility of my class. I actually watch the tanks health and if it drops suddenly, I will amp up my CC and back off my attack CA's. Additionally, according to the guide above, Warding Ebb affects all non-physical resistance, including poison. This is not only great for us, but impacts group mates like warlocks, coercers and SKs. However, I'm not sure how they derived this information or how to verify it. Either way, I think I'm going to start using Warding Ebb and stupifying on a regular basis across the board.

I almost never have an aggro problem, but if any of the horrific changes they had been proposing for 51 ever go through the threat reduction poison will be a must-have, I'm sure.

Pinski

Huh? Reducing Parry chance increase chance to crit? EHHHHHHH? How the fuck does that work? Please explain.

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Scrownge

I guess in an overall sense it would since the mob has less chance to parry therefore you may land a hit that the mob may have parried therefore giving you another hit that may crit depending on the roll..in otherwords:

It doesnt.

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dispatch112

Ah so is there a +16 Magic Damage adornment, that clears up the only thing I was confused about.

Anyways my fault mainly in my response, I didn't know how those adornments worked. But if you have had them numerous time how much dps did they do?...

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She can outbid him on the Dark Orb of the Mind, but can't outparse his pet!