Crafting question - Page 2

hcre · 10-31-2007, 10:23 AM

I too have many high crafters. Tailoring is easy except for some reason the dang dragonhide leather sack (the bag to store throwing items) is always a bitch and a half when I try to make it.

The only thing a weaponsmith sells is adornments, and even then most people just get the generic adornments for their weapons, like the lifetap one or the mana tap one. Weaponsmiths by far get the shaft in profitability at level 70. Next is probably the woodworker since many of their items are weapons even more useless than the weaposnmith ones. The carpenters use the ebony to make sales crates, thus keeping the price of ebony far above what someone is willing to pay for a bow especially with so many viable legendary ones readily available for about what you could start making a profit on with imbued ebony bows. They didn’t get many adornments, and the ones they got at almost all fabled or legendary, which sell for more profit but far less frequently. The only things you can sell regularly as a woodworker are arrows and throwing items, but the profit margin on them sucks.

Simonsays · 10-31-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

I agree that out of the nine classes, IMO carpenter was hardest to level, and included the most hassles. But weaponsmith is still hands down the most useless class once leveled.

I didn't think carpenter was that bad made one specifically get teh status down in my house which has been 0 for some time now, and provy was easy as hell to level. Weaponsmith isn't exactly bad just way to boring... I have 6 crafters and 4 are lvl 70 like my sig says.

LFG · 10-31-2007, 10:43 AM

LFG's crafters > Simon's crafters =p

Simonsays · 10-31-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

LFG's crafters > Simon's crafters =p

Pffft, i took a break from Jan-May, and the 3 tradeskillers i don't have the woman has.

I do need to lvl my slacker ass transmuter though...

Celandine · 10-31-2007, 12:12 PM

Here's the thread from the official forums that addresses the discrepancies. It really has to do with the reaction arts each class is given, but Domino is aware of the issue and working on it (as part of her overall revamp if I'm not mistaken.)

Tradeskill arts - discussion of changes

Faeth · 10-31-2007, 03:25 PM

Thanks - useful link - I was pretty sure this probably had to be being discussed somewhere :-)

Serathe · 10-31-2007, 05:03 PM

Some relevant posts on the merge conversations: (for those that may have missed it)

Any chance of tradeskill mergers coming soon?

"Yeah... no.

My question was, as I clearly stated in my post, a question. Neither I, nor anyone else on the team, have devoted any time to anything beyond that post and reading the responses to it. It was, and remains, a purely hypothetical question.

As to the NGE, please try to remember that game development teams are different, as are the goals of each team and the direction they're taking their game, or wish to take their game.

-Ilu"

Hypothetical question(s)

"I'm going to preface this heavily: the two questions below are purely hypothetical. I can't state this enough times: This is just me, one developer who plays the game, asking a question of his fellow players. Also, I'll give the reasons why I'm inclined to ask. Please try to forgive me for the candid nature of this!

What would armorers and weaponsmiths think about combining the two classes into Blacksmith?
What would carpenters and woodworkers think about combining the two classes into Builder (or some less ridiculous name)?

Smithing:
From the onset (this was some 3+ years ago now), I was curious how a weaponsmith class would function properly on its own. There are only one to two slots (depending on whether the client needs dual wield or 1/2h weapons) which they can fill, and really, only once every ten levels or so. This is vastly different than, say, a jeweler (lots of accessory slots), tailor (lots of body locations), armorer (same as tailor), or any of the other classes, really.

In addition to the lack of slots to create items for, weaponsmiths also face the challenge of needing to compete on a level which the current system just doesn't really allow for. For characters who really need weapons (read: fighters, scouts & some priests), these items are such a critical upgrade path that mastercrafted gear is frequently overlooked in favor of moving directly to better legendary or fabled gear. To some extent, this might be able to be corrected with appropriate dropped recipes and rare components (this is a different discussion however), but it wouldn't be a complete or even guaranteed solution.

Because both of these problems are such a major stumbling block to the weaponsmith profession as a whole, I'm curious what people would think about combining the two.

Woodworking: (or carpenting - which really isn't a word, but oh well)
One of the major problems with both professions has been trying to find enough things that both can build without stepping on each others' toes. Both have had a lack of recipes, and it's been one of the things I've been thinking about while fixing a lot of the little issues with furniture tags and the like. Carpenters get a lot of one-time business from people outfitting houses, and woodworkers will get a boost from the increased usefulness (and quantity) of arrow combines, but even still, both professions I feel have a very tough time standing on their own.

Combining the two makes a lot of sense from my perspective, because the two professions really feel more like a whole that was split in two to conform to a 9 subclass number rather than two professions designed properly from the ground up.

In Closing:
Combining any profession might mean some feeling of a loss of identity, especially for folks who have gone out of their way to set themselves up as the premiere crafter of their field. I'm acutely aware of that, and that's one of the biggest reasons I tread so carefully here.

I'm not dealing with any of the specifics of 'how' here, because to do so before I gauge community reaction would not only be a mistake, but would also be a disservice to you as a community. That time could be spent working on other things rather than working out the specifics of a hypothetical situation.

Please, please, please remember that these really are just questions. I'm interested in hearing about what you have to say on the matter, and whether you would find it a positive change or not , that you'd like me talk to more folks on the EQ2 dev team about."

My best wishes to domino in making them viable without the need to merge, but I'm not too optimistic on it.

Faeth · 11-01-2007, 08:40 AM

She makes alot of sense about armourer/weaponsmith and woodworker/carpenter. I can definitely see where she is coming from with the combining idea.

Lets face it - how come someone who can make metal into a sword shaped item, can't also make a head shaped item - or why can't a wordworker who can shape wood into totems, weapons, etc, not figure out a table or chair - hehe

Perhaps they could split the crafting classes into "desk" experts instead. Create Forgemaster, Loom-master, etc - and give each of these all the receipes that require that particular desk. Just a thought.

But as she said - it runs the risk of upsetting those who are quite happy and expert with their current range of receipes and skills.

I also saw some discussion in the thread about trying to make sure each crafter has at least some sort of "thing" they can make that offers a sustainable livelyhood - something they can make in bulk and sell that can't be got elsewhere - like totems, potions, poisons, arrows etc. There are definitely some crafting classes that got the shaft over that kind of thing, and I would love to see that sorted out at the very least.

Rexx · 11-01-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faeth

Not sure if this had been discussed before - but has anyone else noticed certain tradeskills harder than others? I don't mean in terms of number of receipes, but I mean in terms of actually getting pristine on receipes?

Reason I ask? I am levelling a Woodworker and a Carpenter at the same time. They are both the same tradeskill level. The woodworker has to fight tooth and nail for every pristine, but the carpenter breezes through white receipes to pristine without breaking a sweat.

They both use the same level crafting buffs.

I wondered whether it was something related to the toons themselves (race/class/adv lvl/stats etc) - but then I remembered when both toons were working through the craftsman receipes (10-19) so doing both woodworker type receipes and carpenter type receipes - they both struggled with the woodworker receipes but breezed through the carpenter ones.

Has anyone else observed this kind of thing? Has this been discussed before? Is there a sane reason for it? Are there other tradeskills which suffer the same way? Eg. I know my sage never really struggles much with pristines either.

And just for info - none of my crafters have taken any special racial traits which increase crafting ability - nor do they have any items on them which increase crafting skills, so in theory they should all be on a level playing field in terms on crafting ability.

I just went through the exact same thing on my new dirge/woodworker. As a lowly craftsman I could do woodworker, carpenter, and provisioner recipes, and the difficulty on WW ones compared to the others was very noticable. Seems like the fletching event counters just don't work as well as any of the others for some reason... I never get a decent durability or progress spike when using the fletching buffs, but I do with all the others.

I was hoping it was just a Tier 2 thing, but sounds like it continues on for the higher tiers also, as you've noticed. They really need to take a closer look at those woodworker buffs.

Apocryphea · 11-01-2007, 11:27 AM

I have been keeping up with this whole TS system overhaul, and Naimi Den Mother has some more infor in EQ2 Traders Corner, if anyone wants to read up on it. It is a little vague (because the NDA isn't lifted, and its only Sony approved information leaking out), but it does discuss some of the changes.

To sum up, the biggest problem that faced TS-ers was that, although TS buffs were identical in design, they had different degrees of efficiency. Most TS-ers just toiled through this problem, but with the LU35 (or 36), they made it so lower level buffs could work with higher level buffs, and not not get cancelled out.

The big changes coming with RoK will be that all TS-ers will get the same buffs across the board: a set for durability, and a set for progress, and these will upgrade like adventure spells every tier. There will also be a new TS UI, that will auto populate the correct group of buffs if you are crafting something that is not your primary sub class (lvl 20 and under).

From what I gather, the effectiveness of the buffs are going to be standardized across all TS Sub-classes, recipes will only generate 'Pristine' grade items (returning a portion of fuel AND no XP for sup pristine attempts), and the're adding a tutorial for TS-ing on each of the four noob islands...in short, if you can't get pristine in the new system, you suck...