Tinkering scrolls are WAY too rare - Page 2

Calbiyum · 12-31-2007, 09:13 PM

Yea IMO this thing should be rare seeing what it does. I wish there were more rare shit in this game.

LFG · 01-01-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snark

this should be in the carebear section. i'm glad something is rare in this game.

Rare based solely on RNG is stupid. Rare based on available only to those willing to do really hard things to get it is not.

My arguments here are the same as they were for raiding. Don't make the most desirable items in game only available as retardedly rare random drops from common mobs.

Illuminator · 01-01-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

My arguments here are the same as they were for raiding. Don't make the most desirable items in game only available as retardedly rare random drops from common mobs.

Yesterday I got server disco Return to the Pack (Master I) off a solo Di'Zok mob. Isn't that nice? One of the best heals in the game, doubly important because of epic double-attack, and I didn't have to do shit for it. Some megaskilled fury out there is crying his ass off, and fuck him, the system chose me instead.

firamas · 01-02-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

Rare based solely on RNG is stupid. Rare based on available only to those willing to do really hard things to get it is not.

My arguments here are the same as they were for raiding. Don't make the most desirable items in game only available as retardedly rare random drops from common mobs.

define "really hard things"? is grinding 300 writs to get faction "hard"? no, it's mindblowing easy... but it's time-consuming. by this same token grinding 500 writs, 1000 writs, or 15,000 solo mobs is also not hard.

i will agree that there should be long, interesting, involved quests in the game that give you nice rewards. nice legendary rewards. with nice effects, and even nice models. however, the fabled tag is meant for raid gear, and i will never support any policy that leads to fabled quality gear being obtainable by soloing or single grouping. random_idiot04 and his dumbass friends shouldn't be able to obtain the same quality of stuff as raiders by killing eleventy billion easy solo/heroic mobs.

"rare" stuff is, well, rare for a reason. there is nowhere near enough development time to implement quests or other methods to make each piece of the rare shit obtainable by a bunch of drawn out questlines. hence, the RNG still has an important role.

Lithin · 01-02-2008, 01:11 PM

they should make some things even more rare and make it drop from specific raidmobs (not to replace a piece of loot, but have the chance of dropping the loot + recipe)

Illuminator · 01-02-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

random_idiot04 and his dumbass friends shouldn't be able to obtain the same quality of stuff as raiders by killing eleventy billion easy solo/heroic mobs.

Too late, bot crews are calling your name from Barren Sky...and soon they'll be calling it from Jarsath Wastes too...

Fabled means nothing more than "hopefully better than legendary" and "more expensive to repair than legendary" and best of all, "transmutes to an infusion and/or maybe a mana". The "raid" requirement was lost to the winds long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

"rare" stuff is, well, rare for a reason. there is nowhere near enough development time to implement quests or other methods to make each piece of the rare shit obtainable by a bunch of drawn out questlines. hence, the RNG still has an important role.

Development time goes down dramatically when you don't have to rewrite the game engine per content iteration.

Look at Megalodon before and after the revamp. It was made harder and its loot table made more rare with almost minimal effort, just by checking a few boxes or adding a few copy-paste script lines I'm sure. And without stupid RNG gimmicks.

As for tinker recipes and advanced spells, why must I pay some HK faggot when there's a whole colony of genius gnomes in Steamfont and I'm in good standing with the Qeynos Concordium?

LFG · 01-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

define "really hard things"? is grinding 300 writs to get faction "hard"? no, it's mindblowing easy... but it's time-consuming. by this same token grinding 500 writs, 1000 writs, or 15,000 solo mobs is also not hard.

i will agree that there should be long, interesting, involved quests in the game that give you nice rewards. nice legendary rewards. with nice effects, and even nice models. however, the fabled tag is meant for raid gear, and i will never support any policy that leads to fabled quality gear being obtainable by soloing or single grouping. random_idiot04 and his dumbass friends shouldn't be able to obtain the same quality of stuff as raiders by killing eleventy billion easy solo/heroic mobs.

"rare" stuff is, well, rare for a reason. there is nowhere near enough development time to implement quests or other methods to make each piece of the rare shit obtainable by a bunch of drawn out questlines. hence, the RNG still has an important role.

We may just disagree on this, but I strongly believe that all recipes should be available to crafters able to scribe the recipe. First, you've put in the time to level up as a crafter. The right to scribe a recipe should be determined by something other than the RNG.

A recipe is not like a rare piece of equipment, it involves the right to make an item after you've previously earned the right to scribe a recipe of that level, if you have the rares needed. Distribution of recipes should not be the same as distribution of items, period.

If you want to make a crafted item rare, limit the supply of the rare needed to make the item, as has been done with the smoldering reflective shard to make the achievement switching mirror. In the case of that item, the rare is what's rare, but the recipe itself can be earned by doing 267 rush crafting writs. I think that's a fair system, and rewards those who have done the work needed to earn the right to scribe the recipe, and has also rewarded the adventurer who was lucky enough to be blessed by the RNG that day.

Another system I like is the crafting quests in ROK, where you need to be a high level crafter to do the quests. That is rewarding people for effort rather than luck. I'd definitely like to see more of these in the future.

But making recipe drops subject to the RNG is both stupid and unfair.

Choadley · 01-02-2008, 03:03 PM

I don't have a real problem with these recipes being a bit rare really. I don't feel strongly either way about it, I just kind of feel like it being a little rare and made by rare components that they shouldn't be listed heavily on the broker. Leveling Tinkering was already incredibly easy, so at least some part of it slows down availability of the items.

Zexxii · 01-02-2008, 03:04 PM

i've got a mender bot recipe, or i can make the mender bot, if you'll make some AA swappy thingii's

ooh, wait, they're no trade aren't they?

LFG · 01-02-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choadley

I don't have a real problem with these recipes being a bit rare really. I don't feel strongly either way about it, I just kind of feel like it being a little rare and made by rare components that they shouldn't be listed heavily on the broker. Leveling Tinkering was already incredibly easy, so at least some part of it slows down availability of the items.

If it were me, I'd rather see the blueprints easier to get, but have a necessary component for the mender bot drop from raid mobs.

After all, who else needs (or would even use) the mender bot besides raiders?

So my objection is only to the recipe being available as a ultra rare drop from common mobs. I think the recipe should be on city tradeskill faction vendors. But I think what's needed to MAKE the recipe should either be rare or require a raid to obtain.

Just my opinions.