Mellody

*sigh*
i don't get the point, but i don't care ^^ NO NO NO NOOOOOOOO mage would say - "Hey, our lousy Troub has got his epic and therefore raidewide potm - put him in the other group there and give us class xyz - who needs his damage proc, anti aggro, manareg, spellcrit, spellhaste .... potm is all we need and jcap he can raidwide too"

tell me ONE class mages would prefer over a troub in their group even WITHOUT potm at all !!!!!

Dude, ain't gonna happen we will be kickt out of group by mages! face it!

And still - what the hell is that with HELP soloing and grouping? For solo content you dont need help, for group content - ANY group can do all the content.

you should not do heroic things alone as a group should not do epic zones alone - obvious enough. So raidgear for raiders. If SOME epics also help in other cases, fine, but thats due to how classes work

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Serrith

Hardly ever post on these forums but this is where I tend to disagree with that statement.

Yes PoTM raidwide is a kick ass ability to toss on an epic weap and I'll probably love it just as much as any other troub out there. The problem that I see tho is how is RW PoTM currently balanced with the Dirge's RW CoB?

I could be wrong but I see more classes on raids getting a huge bonus from CoB than I do with PoTM. (i.e. Warriors, Brawlers, Rouges, Preds stand to gain next to nothing from PoTM, whereas, short of being named encounters, i see around 90%+ of the raid force getting a nice boost from RW CoB)

Like I said before tho I love that PoTM is raidwide now and I could give two shits about how well my Epic weapon helps me solo or group, but I just don't see it as balanced between our counterparts other than being mirror images of one of our class defining spells.

Mellody

well i think it is ok, all casters gain something from potm - in addition - tank taunts are proc, healer debuffs and nukes proc, detaunts of nearly all sort proc, bards proc. Normaly a raid should be balanced between casters and scouts or procing and not procing potm classes.

And - don't forget about the melee hit rate - in VP those melees realy need their speed to have ANY chance of getting near the casters, so all in all .. yes, i would say this is balanced quiet well

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Serrith

Heh... I knew as soon as I finished posting that I would more than likely get called out on the melee hit issue with VP mobs, and its definately a valid point. However, that's a balancing issue in and of itself. No way should a mage hit near 100% while melee is nonexistent. Period.

I also understand that taunts, non-melee debuffs, and priest debuffs all proc PoTM, but I just don't see enough of them to put us on par with what CoB can do for an entire raid. I mean iirc a Guardian has what, two learned abilities that will proc PoTM? And, any mage that isn't lazy as all hell can position himself within melee range prior to engaging to gain a nice boost from CoB.

Besides, who said anything about hit rates in VP? I thought we were all running HoS for guild exp before we started in on T8

luxun

Well, if troubs time it well when to cast RW potm, it's a big boost for overall dps and dirges as well. He wouldn't call RW COB when melee ppl try to joust couple hard fights. It's all situational uses for potm and cob.

COB and POTM up at the same is also great boost for overall dps, so u just can't have advantages from melee and disregard casting, can u?

Casters melee, i think it's a joke cuz they can't handle any closeup aoe and their melee skill is too low to hit anything.

my point is it's all situational and balanced. I don't think cob is better potm in general cuz they are 2 dif buff and they work well together cuz ppl cast when melee is delayed.

Serrith

Don't want to argue this much more but I really think my point was missed. Nowhere did I say that PoTM and CoB together, or well timed casts by multiple troubs would end up in horrible dps. My point is that CoB gives a noticable dps increase to a larger portion of the raid in comparison to PoTM.

About the situational comment the only time I see PoTM as good as CoB when cast is on a difficult named encounter, where healers and most of the raid is either ranging or jousting. Other than that situation you should be hitting the mob with your stick. Melee casters are a joke? I'm pretty sure if I was a Mage I would enjoy swinging my 118 DR Mythical weapon for an additional increase to my zw parse.

Venni

Melee hit rates are down quite a bit from spell hit rates. A mage is not gonna have enough down time to worry about melee and god forbid they try to time swings - trying to do so would likely lower their dps. If a mob turns on a caster, they are essentially a paper tank - one hit, die. The range they use when casting gives the tank a half second to get it back - then they dont die, everyone wins.

This is why most casters dont melee. If my casters in my raid did melee, I would be pissed. They need that leash to have a chance to use their deaggros, Null mail, etc if they slip up.

Serrith

That's right, if a mage pulls aggro lets have the tank go chasing after mobs instead.

I mean if any mage is having a problem with peeling mobs they need to either, a) tone it the fuck down or b) get themselves a tank that can hold aggro.

If a mob is supposed to be put in an exact spot how much dps are you losing by having it chase down a clothy? I would much rather have that mage that pulled die, than have the entire melee dps of my raid be screwed over by trying to get behind the mob again or in the right spot for positional CA's.

And yes melee hit rates are down but like I said before that is an in game issue that needs to be fixed.

Venni

I have actually !been corrected! by our illy today in that there are a couple of viable melee builds for the different mage classes - but that still he would not likely use them as such on nameds.

Agreed, a good mage knows how to walk that knife edge between high dps and not getting aggro - even our most excellent caster every once in a while ganks for a second or two.

SaucepanSP

Just a heads up on this step:

-- Stay in Maidens in Drusilla's Chamber and collect the 4 instruments in the corners of her room.
* Receive the Fabled Ayonic Axe and Ward Chimes.

After you collect an instrument a heroic Maiden will spawn, I had 2 spawn whilst I was harvesting. Caught me off guard

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