Ruon

well, I was asked to betray for the main raid force and it looks like im going to be a trouby now, so its time to start asking some questions.

so, for those reading this, i will spare you the stupid sh-t like "what does jesters cap do?" and "what AA line should I go down"...

but, I do have questions, and I am not really getting answers on the forums here.

Now, I know troubs buff casters and dirges buff melee, however, having never really played a troub, I can't say for sure since I havent betrayed yet, but arent they more spell based than dirges? which brings up my real question that i have yet to find a answer to.

if melee auto attack accounts for more than 30% of the troubs damage, and they have CA's, and troubs on here are saying DA and melee crit > spell crit and spell damage, then why do i see so many posts of people reccommending spell crit gear for new troubs?

some people are listing gear and items that are caster build ups, and others are saying that melee is the way all the way...

who is lying?

I think I can figure the rest of it out or find it on the forums here, but, im hoping to save myself countless hours at the wall in KJ with a few responces here from some veterans that can break down for me what troubs damage is based around. any tips you can give me regarding this or anything i should know about betraying would rock.

p.s. no, i didnt buy this character on ebay, yes i am a noob to bards cause my dirge is two months old, my old main was a swashy. also, I am in a t3+ raid guild and after betrayal should have my mythical inside of a couple weeks, so, figure that my ideal gear situation will be involving a very strong raid set up with people who have their mythicals and due to my gear still sucking will most likely be using a board cause betrayals song is the only decent weapon i have right now, and i am betting board+mythical > mythical+betrayals song.

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Meta

Pfft you have no need to defend yourself, your question is very valid.

The thing is, imo, in RoK we have access to a great deal of extremely good weapons, with long spreads which will crit very nicely. Personally I've got 35% DA and 33% MC, the DA is up to at least 65% in raid, with illu mythical and both my boots and earring procc'ing. The reason I've taken this route instead of using say, the vp hat, which has 3 more DA than the hat I'm using, is because I believe there's a great deal of benefit to MC. Especially when you have nice weapons and you're able to raise your +DPS a bit. I'm at 43dps standing, with 15 from oilstone (or 30), and extra 31 from my ring and I'm hoping to get a couple more dps items (I haven't got the vp set boots or bracelet from Phara yet, but I want them). Basically I try to get +DPS as close to 100 as possible. If I get Feral (a rare treat) then I'm happy bunny.

My spell crit is a measly 23%, but raises to 38% when the mythical procs. This does ok for me, I'd love to have more, but I'm trying to work with a nice balance. And although our dps is basically spamming spells with CA's when spells are down, the melee damage between the spells, with high +DPS, DA and MC, makes a huge contribution.

No, use DW imo. Betrayal's Song isn't that sad a weapon. But try to get Throatripper or WDB (which I use) or the dagger from the 3rd named in SoH (or even the axe from the trash, I've checked this out and it seems to be a depressingly nice weapon).

If you were doing nice dps a dirge, tbh there's no reason why you can't do nice dps as a troub. The biggest difference from what I've been told, is that there's always something to cast as a troub. Just keep spamming. Prioritise Painful Lamentations (even thought it FEELS like it sucks) and Thunderous Overture. And don't try to time you melee, just let it happen. Use potm as often as possible, co-oridinating with the other troub, and make sure you JC yourself before it finishes. Keep your 3 main debuffs up (Depressing Chant, Chaos Anthem and Magic Rebuff.

And lastly, make sure your dps is always ahead of the dirges. That's where it's supposed to be! lol. Try to get assassin in your group, apply poison is <3.

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Ruon

thanks for all the tips! i wasnt doing that great of dps on my dirge honestly, he has only been 80 for about a week so I just got to where I could pull a 2k-3k parse...granted im not in the best of gear, but, i still need alot of work.

from what i read though, you prioritise hitting spells and put CA's second, which is the exact opposite advice from what I got as a dirge. my DA and crit are no where what they need to be right now, and my spell crit is even worse. do you belive it would be worth dumping some mastercrafted piece for some that boost spell crit by over 2 and spell damage by 75 (using the legendary shoulders as a example)? because right now my gear sucks, and I know their main dirges and troub are gonna make me look horrid, and i want every little boost I can find.

now, you are saying to use DW even if I really dont have a ideal second weapon. I will take your word for it. I dont time my combat arts with ACT..as a dirge my times would always change whenever i would pop CoB, so instead of using ACT and hitting two or 3 CA's, I found it best to leave a fraction of a second between CA's and spells to allow auto attacks to creep through.

I doubt i will have a assasin in my group, i cant say for sure because I ussually raid with the secondary raid force and havent been to a official primary raid, but I think they only have one main assasin. not sure what buffs I will get yet, but, I dont think keeping my dps above the dirges will be that hard, already i am at or above what the secondary raid force dirges parse, cant imagine switching to a class with more dps, getting better gear, and then adding a mythical to the equation is going to slow me down

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Venni

Former Dirge here.

You do hit your spells a lot, but the casting order that you got used to as a dirge will still serve you well. Your best spells can be cast while moving, so if you're jousting or when you're running in to engage is a good time to fire them off. Being as you will have plenty of time when your spells are down to cast CAs, and vice versa, I dont see a reason to specify one over the other except in cases where you're jousting.

The DPS I do now is about as good as I did in the DPS group as a dirge - a rare 3k+ parse, about 1800-2300 average on trash depending on the raid makeup - no mythicals in our raid yet.

Good luck!

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Ruon

ugh...well, im having a rough time sorting out spell timing for auto attacks...my spell crit is very low, and it shows...i was hitting the training wall today, and in the same gear my dirge was, im parsing 500+ dps less...granted my dirge had a couple damage masters while this guy has none and is all adept 3, but, this sucks. i thought my 2k-3k parses on my dirge were bad...now i spike mid 2k and stay mostly around mid 1k...this blows.

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Uyaem

Was the Dirge parse on the Training Wall too?
Keep in mind that in a raid environment the mob will be debuffed more, plus you get proc goodies from the sorcerers in your group.
Stuff like Assasin's Apply Toxins alone is easily +300 dps for me.

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vojo

dirge can hit round 4 k + on vp mobs now me self can hit 4.3k+ on vp they ar getting more balnced now days we edge it coz of sorc and shit in are grp make up but as for procs tandum can do 10 % of a troubs parse and ass proc is class aswell but a dirge in the right hands can be as punishing as a troub imho

now i know of one or two troubs hitting 5 k on vp mobs but let be true to the point that we cant do that all the time can we :P lower tier zones see dirges hit 4-5k and me self but shit helears can do that in them zones

dirges are not that far behind now days is all am saying here

Kall

With the mythical epic, the VP 6 set, and improved hit rates on orange cons Dirges aren't behind at all anymore.

Meta

I think it's still easier for troubs to get the big numbers. Dirges have to work a lot harder for it.

I did 6.1k single target last night in Kor'Sha. I think that's the best I've done on 1 mob (and no Uyaem, no assassin this time). I've done about 8k on the trash in ToNT, but that's just for lulz

In VP whoever gets the leet buffs gets the numbers. It's not hard to maintain 3-3.5k or so regardless of buffs. But staying >4k is pretty damn hard without a bit of love. I need to try out a few things in there. Like having a defiler in group instead of fury, for RoA on every potm. Might be really nice for consistent dps on orange mobs.

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Uyaem

Honestly, I have yet to get above 4k on pretty much anything single target.
Kor'Sha fights are just too short overall, I really wonder what kind of settings people use on ACT.
Lag has a big impact, however, our raid parses seem generally comparatively low on my parser.

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