Carrillo

no for sure, it could only help if a mez brake to stop the drake before he comes near the MT. I've just answer to the 'non-mezzable' mob in raid

SlotorDembeats

Ok, some good points brought up, kinda. Well not really.

Countersong has it's uses, but it's not powerfull. If you think it's key to raiding then we must raid diffrent stuff.

Anywho some example of why troub's are passed up for heroic content sometimes.

1 ~ Nizara how many of you guys did nizara without a chanter? though so

2 ~ re2 epicx2 sure it can be done without mez's, if your raid tank is with u, but how many groups go in there expecting to kill the x2 without a chanter?

3 ~ maidens yea I can cc in there np, charm/mez on sandstorm and of course our single target mez is fine for D. But I always find myself trying to convince my grp that I can handle it. Pugs, since raid guilds don't always have a grp for everyone.

4 ~veks boss again, can be done without mez's if its a solid group. But yet again how many pugs do you see not looking for a chanter for that zone?

5 ~ I am sure in the new expantion to come there are gona be heroic dungeons that require some sort of grp cc. I just don't wana half to wait 6months for the content to become trivial to get groups there.

In short this isn't about taking away countersong, was a bad example. I would just like to be more appealing as a class to those late nite pug groups that require someone that can mez more then 1 mob every 15seconds.

Chanter's got a nice dps boost, is a small cc boost to much to ask for?

SlotorDembeats

Again, this thread isn't about raiding. But there were times when I was called apon to help mez durring raids. And our single target mez has always been more then enough to lock down that one resisty loose mob.

Meta

I couldn't count the number of times I saved the entire raid or tank with a well timed countersong. It's a long long way from useless.


As for troub CC. It was really fun to be in situations where my CC was useful. Mainly this was when taking a very small and non-ideal group deep into a zone like Chardok. The charm is short, but that short charm is added dps and reduced incoming damage, enough to get an encounter stable or get the first mob dead. Used properly it's effective imo. Making troub CC overpowered or enchanter-like would make the class too easy-mode imo.

My gf played a fury, then illusionist, and with our combined buffs and CC we could do a lot of tricky stuff together. It wouldn't always be easy, but with Illuminate, our CC wasn't usually getting resisted, so nps really.

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Mulari

I do back-up mezzing on raids whenever one of our illys isn't around, so it's not unheard of.

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80 Troubador (Chaynotica)
80 Warlock (Mulari)
80 Fury (Cosetta)

Koinoo

I've done all of the above as the solo mezzer. Nizara was always a good challenge without an enchanter, but I was able to take their place in groups at 70 doing the zone. Just last night I solo mezzed all of RE2 with a solo healer (no mythicals or overly well geared people in the group). I can lock three of the boss adds down fairly reliably if the resists aren't too bad (Ritual of Alacrity from the group defiler plus JC did help quite a bit with the initial lockdown of course) and hold two of them indefinately while the group kills the epic. It wasn't immensely difficult and I've done this multiple times.

I do think that we should be able to mez epics in the same limited capacity that enchanters can (shortened duration with immunity for so much time following the first mez) and possibly even a second short duration, long reuse mez to help when quickly locking down more than one NPC. I don't see that as encroaching on enchanter territory, but giving us more to work with when we're acting as crowd control.

Kall

Out of all the issues to you can choose to address, why the hell would anyone pick more CC? CC is already 99% useless.

Meta

What are the real issues for troubs these days then? When I quit the class was looking pretty damn good. Very capable melee dps, raidwide buffs etc, I have to say I still think troubs are one of the cooler and more fun classes to play.

The limited CC adds to the fun imo, and adds flexibility to the troub's role without making it op or pushing the troub away from being primarily a melee dps class.

I'd be interested to hear what other stuff troubs are complaining about.

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Kall

They're about 2k behind Dirges in max DPS potential.

Dants

IMO, troubador CC is already overpowered for heroic content. I've dominated heroic zones in a pickup group with mezz, charm, snare.

For instance:

Pull name, 2 adds come.

Mezz add 1.
Tank dies.
Charm add 2
Send Charm add to named.
Charm add 2 dies.
Snare kite named
Keep add 1 mezzed.
Kill named.
Kill add.

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