northland

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Paikis

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A very bored god who does most of his job just by showing up.

That is not true.

I really hate to contradict you, especially as you seem to enjoy playing your troub on raids, but yes it is true. You show up, you put your buffs up and most of your job is done. Sure you can debuff, hit jester's cap and precision, but after thats done, you basically just DPS... badly. Your buffs bring alot more to a group than any other buttons you may click. (Talking about raids here, Troubs can be useful crowd control in groups)

A very frustrated god, who no matter what he does, can't get over 2k DPS on a single mob (I've yet to break 1500, but my gear isn't the best). A god who adds more DPS to a raid than any other class (possible brig/dispatch exception) yet will NEVER see even the first letter of his name on a parse.

I see myself on the parse all the time, just not in the top of it.

Just out of interest, what would you normally parse in MMiS? Because unless your real DPS classes are asleep, you shouldn't ever be in the top 12, and my parser will usually show only the top 7-8 names. I'd love to beleive that Troubs can parse well, but it's just not true. If you count the proc damage though, we're well over-powered. (Official forums -> Troub forums -> 'Troubador DPS' thread)

The best improvement to the troubador class in general would be to add mobs (heroic/solo/raid) which use spells more than once every 5 minutes. That way RoR would get some more use, we'd MAYBE get a spot in the MT group on a couple of encounters...

No you wouldn't, that would be retarded, I don't even WANT to be in the MT group, we add jack shit there, we should be where we belong with a few casters and a healer and one or two melee classes.

OK, so I was exagerating when I said it was the 'best improvement to the troubador class'. It's not, but it would be a VERY welcome change, and might mean that RoR would get used for something other than PvP. In the case of a caster mob with few or no auto-attacks, RoR would be better than PoS. Even if they weren't casting class spells so we could reflect them, they are still absorbed. How can you say we dont add shit to a MT group? At the present time there is no reason to use us there, but if RoR was made to be useful, on SOME encounters it'd be better than PoS. +Defense SEEMS to be alot rarer than +parry gear and adorns, so we win there (I think). We both get Brias, we both buff Aggression. DPS is slightly better than haste, but only because of ripostes, and haste is still good. We both get the same AA buffs, although LotD is pretty nice, you should still have a templar there. The dirges still win for hate, as we can't run Alin's in the MT gorup due to transfers.

Saying we add nothing to the MT group is just plain wrong. Saying we are useless in the MT group is again, plain wrong. We certainly add MORE to a DPS group, but if you've got 4 troubs (The world would certainly implode, but I digress) and no dirge, you'd be crazy NOT to put one in the MT group.

let's face it, if you have a mob which casts spells every 2-3 seconds instead of auto-attacking, RoR is gonna be better than anything a dirge is gonna bring.

If that was the case, you wouldn't get i the MT group anyways, because if a mob were to cast that much it would be class / racial spells and you would swap the coercer for an illusionist because spellshield pretty much pwn RoR in the face.

Spell shield is only 3 spells though right? Then it has to be recast? RoR is up all the time (granted it has a shitty proc chance) I don't really care one way or the other if I would get into the MT group, but getting some use out of those buffs sure would be nice.

Solitude Zero

I wouldn't want to be in the MT group anyway either...I like being with the mages and fury getting vim and agitate. Then showing up on the parse only to laugh and say "The Troub out dpsed j00!!! pwned!!!"

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Magician Special Education//Conjy Pimp of Kithicor

Paikis

Ha! I remmeber a pick-up Labs raid where i actually TOPPED the parse a couple times. I had great fun telling the DPSers that they were fired!

Dallad

I am definitely going to go down the wis tree once i start grouping a lot. I am just wondering how your personal DPS compares between DW'ing and using the STA line with double attack and a shield. And what delay weapons would i want in both situations? You obviously would be able to take a hit better with a shield but there are also a lot of people saying that your DPS is higher speccing into STA also.

Also, what, is happening to the DW/1H weapons? I thought i read somewhere, and now i cant remember where, that you will be able to DW 1H weapons but it does something to the damage or the delay. And when are these changes going to happen?

One more thing. I havent tried to put any points into the EOF AA's. I don't know if you have to be a certain level before you can put points into them or what. At lower levels is it all prefereance where to put them or is it extremely beneficial to put them one place or the other first?


EDIT: Talking purely PVE for every aspect.

~Dallad

Dants

It depends on the quality of weapons. Assuming all endgame loot, you're probably gonna lose ~100-200 DPS not DW'ing. This also takes into consideration that you'd need to put 8 in double attack preventing you from getting rhythm blade or bump. In every situation, higher delay = better.

This is correct. The new delay for each weapon will be (base delay * 4/3). I think it'll be on test next GU which means it might make it to live the update after that. I'd say 5-6 weeks from now until live gets it.

Once you hit 10, you can put points into either tree.

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Paikis

I actually tested the difference in auto-attack only between these 3 set-ups: (all 3 were with WIS 4-4-8-6-2)

1. STA 4-4-8-8 with sword+board
2. STA 4-4-4-8 with DW
3. AGI 4-4-4-8

1. sword+board with STA seemed to have a higher initial burst, but lowest damage over a long fight.
2. Had the highest damage over time.
3. Seemed to be middle of the road. Steady DPS, no real spikes. The poison would over-write itself ALOT.

Don't have the parses anymore, but it was done with Adamantine Dragonfang and Absolution for the DWs, and Frostwrath as my 1-hander. the Dual-wielders were adorned with power-procs, Frostwrath with a scintilating glacial temper.

My personaly opinion for best DPS, you should dual-wield with the follwing setup: WIS 4-4-6-8-2, STA 4-4-4-8, AGI 4-1. OR, if fighting yellow/OJ mobs, switch the 4-1 AGI to 4-1 INT.

Dallad

I don't understand why you go down the STA line if you are going to DW. The skill states that it increases your chance to double attack if you have a roundshield equiped. All of the skills in the tree you need to have a roundshield equiped. Well unless the achievement tree is wrong on Sony's player site and it is different in the game. I am at work atm so i can't check exactly what the tree says in game. Is there a good place to check out up to date skills / spells?

~Dallad

Paikis

The third ability adds double-attack to YOU, when you wield a roundsheid. The fourth ability gives double-attack to your group (and yourself) no matter what you're wielding.

So, STA 4-4-4-8 gives you the STA points, 8 points wasted in shit you wont use cos you don't use a roundsheild, and 10% doubleattack for yourself and all your group members.

Dallad

OK, that makes a lot of sense. Been looking for a good place to look at skills for the past few mins. You would think that sony would actually keep an updated and informative list of them seeing you pay an extra couple dollars a month to be able to look at it and have your profile updated automatically.

Dallad