Ripchord

Nah, it's more of a complaint than advice actually lol...here are some complaints that you can find on a lot of forums


Particularly with this TSO progression, they've made curing for healers so 'blatantly' important that it basically turns healing into a mini game of targeting someone and curing them, and that's how half your fight is spent...using single target and group cures. SOOOO fun and challenging.


They really liked their little one-fail all-fail thing from trakanon and byzola, implemented on and during RoK expansion. Can be pretty annoying if even one person in the raid is lagging, or as a phone ring during combat at the wrong turn...basically turns every mob from "on the average, your guild is strong" to "you are only as strong as your weakest link.

Now, in theory there is nothing wrong with that...and the one-thing goes wrong = mob kills you thing can be fun, and you have to get a whole raid force on board with it. But hey, not everyone raiding is on a high performance machine...and not only that, they've overdone it so WAY too many mobs use it...honestly, after a while it seems tired and old, as though sony just gave up trying to make fights original anymore...


Sony dev - "HEY alrighty, we finally got everyone using four enchanters in raids by increasing their dps output over time! Now that we did that, let's have mobs that power wipe every 2 seconds! And let's do it with every mob!" Seriously? That's their answer to making mobs harder?

Theoretically I'm starting to disagree with their overall "ingenius" designs, taking easy ways out to make mobs challenging and new, to the point where overall, where REALLY, all they are doing is biasing the class setups that make the raids overall easier.

And now, with added tank switches, and whack-a-mole curing, if you want to make it easy, they pigeonhole you into at least two (three if you want it easy) plate tanks...in palace they pigeonhole you into one brawler (which is fine they have sweet raid buffs anyways)


But overall at the end of the day, for developers that originally created 24 classes for 24 raid spots...the bottom line becomes 4 enchanters, 4 bards, and probably 1 extra than the intended 6 healers, maybe 7 or 8 healers. And since a lot of the content is easier with 3 plate tanks as well? Well guess who is on the outs. pure DPS classes, which is what a majority of people find fun to play...there are 8 of those classes that are technically classified as pure dps (4 scouts, 4 mages), and not that they don't have utility, but 2 mages are giving up spots to enchanters who have way MORE utility...and 2 scouts to bards with way more utility...

Too many times you find your raid only has room for four dps classes, and when there are 24 classes total, hey, the system is flawed. Perhaps the best guilds in the game can get around this and bring more dps, or maybe they downed the mobs first for more power proc gear (zarrak's belt and kultaks neck for healers for example) making it so yeah, you can get away with less utility and more dps...

but for the MAJORITY of guilds out there, yeah you are pigeonholed into what classes you can get away with bringing...

They tried to revisit how tanks work...and as everyone knows that would have simply turned tanks into pure taunt classes and boring as all hell to play...what they REALLY need to revisit is spreading utility around a little better, and making their mobs more challenging without feeling so damn gimmicky, whack a mole joust bullshit....


Now before some of y'all say "hey you're just bitter cuz your guild can't get past it..." not true at all...the raiding is always fun to an extent, and no matter what mob a guy works on and when, it's still fun...I just think it could be MORE fun, for MORE classes...

I guess in february they're thinking of making it so bards can buff 2 groups at once...solving issues in blue servers where they are taking like 3 dirges and 3 troubs...now at least can be back to just 2 and 2...

I say this...stop gimmicking the mobs to pigeonhole classes, so you don't have to shun dps into "you should create a dirge or an illy" and continue to increase tank utility and START increasing dps utility....Game would be more fun if more classes were in each and every raid, to me...

I dunno, if you read all that, what do think? On what points do you agree, on what do you think I'm cat-shit up a tree? Just opening it up for discussion...

Omence

"you are only as strong as your weakest link."

I agree with a good portion of what you say.
As far as thinking 24 classes should each have a raid slot sounds silly. Class abilities aside it just wouldnt work. If it were possible to bring in more Dps classes in then alot of the encounters would be a joke... most of which already are. Utility classes are essential and if your tanks dont suck they can dps just fine as well..Push/Vasu zerker sk and they easily rank around 5-6 on our parse. As for dps classes we run 2 swash 1 assassin 1 wiz 1 warlock 1 conj. That is our general dps we have on a raid. That being said its usualy a mix of those who are top4 of the parse but there is also Salems(coercer) who throws the hell down and more often than not can top the parse. Minus our bards who think they are robin hood ive seen some of our bards put out 10ks on plenty of fights and I dont mean the easy tso stuff.
So it is true... your raid force is only as strong as its weakest links. Class really doesnt matter if the person at the wheel doesnt know what they are doing.

As for raid wipe fail conditions I think those are great. The feeling of knowing the mob is at 5% and some one could wipe the raid in those last few moments is pretty great .. more so if the mob dies.

I can tell you this though...most of the encounter conditions you speak of are from early tso encounters. Progress a bit further and you will see some good challenges.

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Shook

Yea, we don't run a brigand.

Kcirtap

We use 5-6 healers for everything in tomb and 7 healers for everything else we kill. We normally have no more than 2 enchanters in raid for every mob we kill (including zarrakon and anashti) and yes 4 bards. Your support classes (dirge/troub/illy/coercer) should still be considered dps as well as support since they can parse well.

I'm not certain what power fights you're talking about. I know we have the power procing gear now, however we did kill these mobs without it the first few times until we could actually attain it. The power control is pretty easy to control which leads to the next issue...

One man can wipe the raid. Sure if you have one helmet your raid can blow up. Okay now here is the part you may not like... if people can't focus on a raid enough then they shouldn't change the encounters for them, the players should adjust their raid force. Plenty of guilds have the focused/dedicated players to easily overcome this, if your guild doesn't then it's your job to fix it. After pulling a mob for a few hours even the weaker links in the raid force *should* have picked up on it by then and if not just replace them.

You don't need a brawler for palace at all, it simply makes one portion of the zone a bit easier. You shouldn't need more than 2 tanks for anything in game save a very select handful of mobs.

The curing this expansion is annoying, mostly with the cloaks that debuff the shit out of your dps. However, with the AEs generally being the only damage people take it gives the healers something to do and on some mobs it forces you to create a cure rotation to have a consistently steady fight.

The real issue is often times that people need to pay attention to raids, know what they're doing and make use of all their available resources. If not, you need ideal circumstances to simply zones to clear it in a timely manner if at all.

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Kaned

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http://immortalispvp.guildlaunch.com/

Darkphoenixx

Bards don't parse you lieing son of a bitch, why do you have to go and lie like that, geez.

You see Omence, shit like this is what makes Immortalis look like a bunch of cheaters.

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Sibslynx

If the encounters are hard just use some cheats/exploits. Then again I heard they dont help you progress, so I dunno!

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Ripchord

Again I should repeat that the 4 enchanter/4 bard thing is what most guilds end up doing to make it easier, same with extra healers...whether a strong raid force can get away with less...

It's still generally thought to be EASIER with that setup because of easy power feeds (don't have to worry about positioning as much on mobs that power wipe based on position) and easier curse curing.

Yet what omence said is relevant too, perhaps if we progressed a bit farther we'd see slightly less of that kind of thing...but for now it is relatively annoying...

as for kcirtap asserting that the bards and enchanters can be considered dps as well, I agree, but the fact that they add so much utility AND still can dps...the enchanters especially...is part of why I think other classes should have more added utility, in order to keep up better with the enchanters for raid spots...

Given you are just forming a raid and have a choice between a 15k parsing conj or 10k parsing illy, both who are new to your raid force, generally you'll end up taking the illy because of his utility...

I'm not saying you need all 24 classes in a raid, I'm just sayin that the players ability should be your deciding choice not their class so much, if everything was all equal...but as is...the bards and enchanters are too OP and dominate raid spots because of ability to dps, add dps, and in enchanters' case, make power easy...

Omence

Sibs you really need to give it a rest man no one cares what you have to say because its all bullshit. Go away.

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http://immortalispvp.guildlaunch.com/

Vumael Starveil

Still waiting for you to uninstall ACT cheater. Worst thing is ACT is a form of cheating that definitely does have a linked causation with progression. You're a cheater too Sissy!


Edit: Sissy guzzles horse sperm, it must be true because Sissy couldn't be this bad at leading if he didn't!