Too many dumbass melee threads to reply to them all

[kulras]

Originally Posted by Seiryu

lol@solid burst dps

i hate to break this to you but the "versatility" you speak of is what makes us crap. the more specialized a class is the more usefull it is on a raid. no one wants a class that is average at everything but amazing at nothing. end of story. I understand there is content outside of raiding and people whine and bitch about how slow they kill heroic mobs but thats not what i play the game for. I play the game to raid .. thats the sole thing i enjoy doing and there are many other people like me and right now our class SUCKS for raiding because of the "versatility" that you say makes the game "fun" sorry but its not fun having no spot on a raid once you know how to beat it.

Err, no...If we had the gear itemization we needed, we could do FAR better DPS than as casters plus never have to pay for a single spell. We would also heal more due to proc heals from the STR line.

I think the problem here is how the warden class is being viewed and not necessarily the class itself. Everyone here is entitled to their opinions though! I once thought as you did, but I decided to look at the plus sides of the class and work with it. All classes have some down side to them, and that is usually what people bitch about the most.

Also, I am holding out for the hope that SOE adds some nice group buffs to our repetoire (sp??) as well as gear choices for caster OR melee. Beyond that, adding versatility to the class is a good thing and makes us very powerful. If we're under utilized, well that's just a shame


P.S. Repeating content over and over isn't fun anyway, so who cares? Just tell the raid to pick up the your gear and drop it in your inbox while you're out soloing ^^^ Heroic mobs ;)

[Renarde]

Originally Posted by Seiryu

...

and no need to be a hardcore player to live (suffer) the consequences of this situation.

The subjet is about raiding, mainly raiding. Today (and it seems tomorrow) we have to fight about a healing spot from release to ending of the extension. We don't want a part time healing spot, and i 'd like to avoid stealing the spot of an another healer.

So, what is the solution ? Leading HC guilds (like NPU) are they able to support us in this struggle with SOE's vision of our raiding gameplay ?

I whine since EOF's release, but until recently, it was "talk to my hand" (i hope it's the right common phrase)

The melee way is a nonsense for a raiding warden, there absolutly NO STR with our Epic equipment set. Hello frustration for this ways' followers :D.

sorry for my english, it's not my native tongue

[kulras]

Originally Posted by Renarde

The melee way is a nonsense for a raiding warden, there absolutly NO STR with our Epic equipment set. Hello frustration for this ways' followers :D.

sorry for my english, it's not my native tongue

Right, but imagine if the gear that dropped had int OR str? Or crazy enough, BOTH!? Would you say it's insane then?

Again, what I am trying to get at here is...the problem is GEAR not class. Wardens are the most speedy, efficient healers in this game: that is our claim to fame (at this very moment anyhow). I agree we need more utility (like better itemization on gear and better group/raid buffs) but beyond that, the argument about melee versus caster really needs to die off already, because the reality is if we had the gear itemization right NOW, we would all be melee in raids. Why? Free heals and heck, it's downright fun!

[Renarde]

Originally Posted by kulras

Wardens are the most speedy, efficient healers in this game: that is our claim to fame (at this very moment anyhow).

What the big deal ? is it useful ? No, when you control the fight. We are a sort of stopgap.

the gear is just an example, nevermind there is STR or not. I emphasize the paradox of the line for a raiding warden. a fury, with the int line, hasn't this paradox.

[kulras]

Originally Posted by Renarde

But is it useful ? No, when you control the fight. We are a sort of stopgap.

the gear is just an example, nevermind there is STR or not. I emphasize the paradox of the line.

Like I mentioned in one of the other posts, wards (and now that I think of it) powerful reactives are a real detriment to an MMO, where healing was just as important to tanking as to DPS. I'm still trying to get used to the idea (as I am still new to EQ2) but it just seems like SoE tried to do too much in the way of classes/healers. I dunno...I do see the potential issues however.

On the same note, during those downtimes when you can't heal, there are other useful things to do: Cleanse, DPS, brush your teeth, finish watching the football game, etc. So it's not a total loss


Edit: I ran as a Fury to 45 or so and it sure felt more...well toned that the Warden does, that is true. However, I am not seeing the paradox here (maybe it's too late for me). The way I see it, you can go with STR or INT. Either should be completely viable barring gear to match. The benefit is similar dps and free heals if you are melee.

Fury's on the other hand, have no options. Their nukes would suffer greatly if they went STR and got STR gear. Not to mention, they have no CA's to assist with turning spells into melee attacks.

And all in all, INT doesn't benefit healing. INT = Spell Damage; STR = melee damage. Sorry if I am being ignorant, but can you explain this paradox you mention?

[Renarde]

It will be my last message about this subjet, because your lack of EQ2 raid experience, imho, and it's not the subjet (we don't want anymore DPS for defending our raid utility).

If you choose INT or STR line, it's for dps purpose. Fury is clearly INT DPS optimised, and Warden seems to be STR optimised, with the EOF AA options. Fury full set = 186 INT (and 10 STR). Warden full SET = 0 STR (191 INT).

I don't think our "basic" healing power be involved in. It's great but dispensable.

[GinFan]

Kulras we have str and int options, true, but an optimized Fury with a casting focus has considerably more dps potential than an optimized Warden with either or both (even if gear was more complimentery). Their buffs have more upside in a raid imo and their healing has similar merit, especially in spike damage situations. We have some nice tools, but as you yourself mentioned our buffs need some work. The way I follow the general discontent of this post, is that the devs spent all this effort thinning us out with melee when they should have either made our dps potential on par with furies, or even better, made our defensive capability as significantly better as a Fury's offensive edge.

[gitana]

and in 3 weeks more which *"raiding"* wardens gonna keep INT or STR.... ?

i dont think none raider gonna care about warden DPS when RoK start, not even if wardens doing more 2k dps

[Oakmiser]

Originally Posted by kulras

P.S. Repeating content over and over isn't fun anyway, so who cares? Just tell the raid to pick up the your gear and drop it in your inbox while you're out soloing ^^^ Heroic mobs ;)

When we got those free respec cards from the NPC a while back I did some testing. I found it alot easier and safer to root nuke with a movement/int line mix then it was with STR/wardens. I could take out level 71ish mobs doing the whole melee thing, but doing root nuking combo I could take out the heroic groups in mistmoore castle, and would ask my friends to let me drop group and solo named in catacombs just to see if I could do it(and I could).

The damage from having a melee setup was subpar, I do mostly blame poor itemization with inqs/wardens in mind but with how they setup fabled gear it makes you think that Devs prolly thought that a smart raiding warden would prolly be nuking and not doing any of the melee stuff...

[GinFan]

SOE seems intent on giving healers a partial DPS role. If SOE was truly serious about Warden melee DPS being on par with Fury nukes, I think they should base CA damage/debuff amount upon the respective spell damage/debuff amount, i.e. CA at level 1 = 60% damage/debuff of spell scribed, level 2 = 70% up to level 5 =100%. With 75% crit we would be able to measure up to the other granola eaters.

This plays to our gear choices. There is more healer centric items available to us that have +Spell damage and +INT than +CA damage and +STR. The only thing not working both ways would be procs.

This gives value to scribing upgrades for melee Wardens, not to mention making some master 2 choices potentially more appealing. Melee would be much more appealing for healing/casting focused Wardens in general.

This would actually give Wardens some versatility because by optimizing ranged and melee at the same time, we could adjust our dps role based on a situation. Lower dps at ranged safety and higher dps up close and personal.

STR would still have value for auto attacks so it isn’t a complete throw away.

The only con I can see at the moment is PvP balance, to which I say fuck PvP, you are ruining the game.