Zuiya

You asked the question that has been on my mind...
I think it's a mix of things, some of which may be the death of a class.

Haven't too many smart, skilled wardens already lost heart and given up on the class or even the game? Is there any fun in a game when there's nothing for you to do?

The larger crowd of wardens just don't come here, of course. They have little ambition, are all too happy with their class and what they can do (though, in reality they don't), and you only really hear from them when they ask in level 1-9 what's the best AA choice after Wisdom, or how to get their port spells (and some don't even understand that when you tell them)... If they were to come here, they would turn away at the door, because people have a tendency to tell them that they suck, and nobody likes being told that. But I guess those aren't the ones you are looking for anyway, Wclarry.

And then those of us who are somewhere in the middle, miles ahead of the worst retards and miles behind the elite... don't know what to say about us. I still have a place in my guild, because we're progressing... yes, my heals still matter on Nameds we're learning.
But I, too, would want to have a real need besides mopping up when the mobs have pissed on us. Something that made my class stand out and be truly desired. But that won't happen as long as the willingness to make it happen isn't there. And when the bleakness and lack of optimism creeps in, what's the point. We'll just slowly die.

My 2 cp worth.

Tunare's Blessings!
Zuiya Silverfern

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Zuiya Silverfern,
Warden and Tailor
eq2sleepless.com - because raiding > sleep !

Pinski

Yes you can. The posts there aren't covered by a NDA at all.

Just saying.

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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos
Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

Slizz

Don't know if ya'll like to bitch or are tired of being a warden. I've played a warden for 2 years. Celestina is my main on Unrest server. I quest, I grp, I raid - and I'm damn good. It's rare that I have nothing to do. I get used in MT cause of my raid specs, OT cause of my HoTs and tricks (I don't just mash buttons, nor do a casting order, but I use my brain based on the situation). My fav grp in a raid is the dps. We have a blast.

As for grping, I am constantly asked to join the grp. Most all the time, I am the solo healer. Sometimes, I'm hard pressed to find the time to work my alts which include a defiler.

I do not find wardens are a so-called dead class. Perhaps it is in your guild/server, but certainly it ain't in mine - at least with me. In fact, in my guild, more ppl have been rolling wardens lately which is great to see. And most of them really like the warden style.

I do what I can to pass along my knowledge of how to effectively utilize the skills a warden has and the tricks. I even find gale and hierophantic genesis to be even more useful than many wardens give credit to using. And I use my t shell in many situations.

So wardens in raids? You betcha. Wardens in grps? You betcha. So get off your bitchin' session and instead focus on being the best damn warden in your guild, on your server, in your grps, on your raids and know all your tricks and abilities like the back of your hand. Then you can think on how to use what you got to its max benefit for the situation instead of blindly bitchin' to DEVS or that you are at fault if you can't get on raids or grps.

If you are spec for melee and dps, don't expect to be desirable in raids. You are needed for healing in raids, not pretending you can melee along side others just as good. Use what buffs you do have and debuffs (2) inbetween your heals. If you are spec for solo, don't expect tons of invites to join grps. Change those specs to meet the situation. Be flexible and you just may find yourself getting invites to the party.

If ya still wanna bitch - hell - go reroll a necro!

celestina, toltec healer
master alchy still blowing up chem labs
I keep hitting ESC, but I'm still here

Pinski

You're dumb.

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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos
Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

WC-Larry

This person is a PRIMARY example of what is wrong with our class. Thankfully Pinski has already point that out for us.

This is clearly a person who understands nothing of the game mechanics or our class or where exactly we fit in the raid. They are content to give the standard bullshit answer to everyone who poses the warden question. Apparently if you don't get a raid spot its because you suck.

OMFG I DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS GETTING RAIDS OR GROUPS. OMFG I TOP THE HEAL PARSES. THERES NO WAY WE ARE BROKEN.

Its sad because based upon the passage that Pinski quoted its obvious that Aeralik has the same view.
'Hey my guild uses a warden all the time. You guys only bitch because obviously you suck and aren't worth your spot in player skill.' Never mind of course that in the best guilds in the game the wardens routinely sit out 90%+ of the content. I highly doubt the best guilds in the game routinely recruit the shittiest wardens in the game.

Maybe someone should point out to Aeralik that if his guild uses a warden for everything then maybe he should reassess who he thinks he sucks, because if they are still using a warden for the majority of the content then it is obvious it is his guild and not the majority of the wardens that suck.

Gildamethy

lol I like you.

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tracheaspider

Ah, but see, I'm nuke/heal specced (DPS modes = just a change of gear), but the OT defiler can out-DPS and out-heal me (nature of wards) most of the time, even when I have a decent group. He also buffs way more HP, has the regenning ward buff vs. magic damage, can spec for 100% personal melee crits, has a dog that benefits from group buffs and can be specced to haste the group, gives people a melee damage proc, can spec for ROA, etc. This is a defiler, the last class people tend to think about when you mention priest DPS.

So, o great and knowledgeable warden, since you're against the idea of going melee spec, what should I do to make myself more desireable than yet another defiler (much less any other priest) if they are more versatile and can out-DPS me and have more utility?

Maybe you can hand out some of those blinkers you're wearing so I can join you in pretending the warden class is peachy keen and only troubled by the QQ'ing of inferior players?

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Veedub

Wow, now I know why Wardens haven't been fixed, our developer is a moron... but yet smart enough not to play the class him/herself.

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Veedub - 80 Warden
Senior Officer & Wingman of Harms Way
- If I get mine, before she gets hers, it's her fault -

Ariel

Dear Celestina,

I'm not as harsh as WClarry..but seriously, wtf? What are you raiding, and with whom? If you are in a mom and pop guild where they are valuing you for your sunny disposition and can-do attitude, that's wonderful.

I've been playing this class since one day after launch - as my main. I have a Defiler and a Templar as well. I, too, have a raid spec. I, too, have muddled my way through a casting order, and I, too parse well - in a lot of cases better than game mechanics 'ought' to let me parse. This means in some cases that other non-druid healers in the raid are not playing their classes as well as I am.

If I am put in a MT group with a Defiler and a Templar that are equally as good as I am (and yeah, I rock)...I am blown out of the water healwise.

Why? Because I'm too busy bitching to figure out how to play this class? No. Because that's the way the game works. That's how Wards, Reactives, Direct heals and Regens are 'read' in order to repair damage on any player.

What we are bitching about here in our horribly self-indulgent bitch session is that even though this is the case, a developer (that's a guy that decides how the game is going to work) doesn't think this represents a problem for us, and has said so.

He's said this even AFTER saying that yeah, it does represent a problem and we should 'be patient'. Since you have said you've played the class for two years, you will not probably remember back when we WERE wanted for raids, since you didn't start playing the class till well after the combat revamp. That was where the stuff that we were wanted for was broken and never really fixed. Sort of, but not really.

So..in this bitch session, we are basically showing our lack of patience after about ..um..3 years in a game that's spanned almost 4.

Almost everyone that posts here posts because in spite of this - we like the class. The 'bitching' that's going on is not because we can't heal, solo, or find a group. All those are completely fun, and yes we all love playing our class there.

But even in your infinite wisdom, you'll have to see that a class with so much potential comes to a screeching, horrible, frustrating, grinding, bang your head on the keyboard halt - about the front door of Veeshan's Peak. That's in Jarsath Wastes in case maybe you haven't been there to bang your head there too.

The problem here, though - is that many of us want to push our characters to the furthest that we can. In this 'world' that means tough content - raids, avatars, etc. The other problem is, besides our sunny dispositions, we really don't have a whole lot of tricks up our sleeves with which to get around the way the game runs.

So..yeah, I guess I can get off my bitching session and figure out how to play my class to the utmost of my ability. I guess my level 80 Warden that raids when not being tossed from group to group like a hot potato because all the groups want uber buffs and dps...could probably get a clue and maybe learn my spells - I can see your point.

I can learn that I don't have much in the way of buffs and I don't dps very well even if I'm melee spec'd. I suppose I can get off my bitch session and take my 70 Dreadnaught PvP Warden out for a spin and maybe try to figure out the class well enough to stay alive through a whole fight - by using some of the 'tricks' I have up my sleeve.

Yeah. I guess I'll give that a try. Why didn't I think of that? In 150 levels of Warden it never occurred to me to try every possible configuration of AA spec, gear combinations and fighting styles.

Glad you mentioned it. I am humbled...I'm glad you condescended to share your knowledge and get me back in the game.

Thank you.

Slizz

Now this is an interesting comment. If you feel you are "mopping up" because you don't have wards like a defiler, why don't you become a defiler?

To take the other view, I don't consider myself "mopping up" at all. I don't need wards as my main healing pwr. My heals are HoT and take over when the wards die and the defiler, etal are still casting them for the next 20 seconds or so. My heals are fast turn arounds and keep on coming as wards wane. My heals are steady, wards are not.

Each have their purpose. And each are just as important as the other.

So why wallow in self-pity and the "oh, po' my syndrome?"

You state you want wardens to stand out - how? It's one thing to complain, however, one needs to replace those type complaints with ideas. Do you have any?

celestina, toltec healer