Group DPS

Raidyen1 · 03-11-2008, 12:37 PM

I see alot of posts about raid dps and parsing. I was wondering though what other wizards are parsing at when running Vaults or Madiens. I have no raid gear at all, i do nothing but run in single groups. I have been parsing zonewide in madiens/vaults right around 1700 with an Illy in the group.

methulah · 03-11-2008, 06:48 PM

I'm gimpy, but if I've got an illy or troub in the group, I'll parse around 3k.

Ailees · 03-12-2008, 03:41 AM

Your DPS depends for 50% from your group, much more than your equipment. I am between 1.5 and 2.5 and the wizards I parsed in zone zones are also around that.
I did those zone enough to be able to predict what my DPS will be when I look at members :

1/ agro management : with some PU, if you start high, you die ; then you go cool and low DPS of course. I hate those groups, but for Epic I had to get some (deep chardok and seb with them is a PITA)
2/ illu and troub of course made +40% easy.
3/ other DPSer : I ran a lot of time with a Zerg guild group with a good tank (MT in raid) 2 healers (or one and troub), 1 brigand, 1 assassin (both being the 2 best of our guild) and me. My DPS is LOW (more 1.5 than 2 !) because those bast... kill SO FAST that I can do nothing. All dots are useless, Fission is good only if you are at the right place, no time to move ! I'm happy I have a M1 DS that I cast before pull

4/ my max DPS : with good tank,healer(s),troubadour and another DPS (but not the 2 of the zerg group).

Mezelline · 03-12-2008, 06:49 PM

In single groups your dps depends alot upon the quality of the other players in your group. If your group can kill mobs in 15 seconds you don't have to use your low-efficiency spells that will drag down your parse. I've found that mob killrate actually matters more than buffs for parsing in one-group scenarios. Buffs really only come into effect when it takes longer than 20seconds to kill a mob, because then you have lean on buffs to outweigh your low efficiency spells.

methulah · 03-13-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mezelline

In single groups your dps depends alot upon the quality of the other players in your group. If your group can kill mobs in 15 seconds you don't have to use your low-efficiency spells that will drag down your parse. I've found that mob killrate actually matters more than buffs for parsing in one-group scenarios. Buffs really only come into effect when it takes longer than 20seconds to kill a mob, because then you have lean on buffs to outweigh your low efficiency spells.

Not so true for Wizards, I find. It's hard to get through the rotation of our high-efficiency spells in fifteen seconds, when things like Fission and Bolt of Ice have long cast times and require certain circumstances. I find I parse much higher on raid mobs, for example the TTR trash in T7 gave me some of my highest parses in a single group situation.

dakkota · 03-13-2008, 01:14 PM

tbh in a group...I just debuff and start dropping nukes. If I'm worried about aggro, I step in, hit numbing cold so its snared for 36 seconds. Then I step back and drops nukes, and if I pull aggro, it craws at a blazing 75% speed towards me and will die before I get touched anyway. Snared heroic = balls to wall! ;O

methulah · 03-13-2008, 07:14 PM

I hadn't thought of the numbing cold. Good trick. What I normally do is debuff, and start dropping nukes as well. I have an excellent defiler who I often group with that can normally keep me alive through most heroic shit in RoK, but if it's a named or something that hits like a truck and I see it's turned to me, I'll just hit blip (lawl) and start casting something with a long timer, like Bolt of Ice or Fission, and it should be beating up on something else by the time it's cast, and it should be as good as dead afterwards.

I'm gonna try this numbing cold thing though, thanks for the heads up.

Mezelline · 03-17-2008, 05:46 PM

Eth,
If you want to parse well in single group scenarios, then its usually a bad idea to debuff, as mob life often won't last long enough to fill the debuff's duration. Of course everybody parses better in raid scenarios because you usually get good buffs and the mobs get debuffed a ton. But I would also say that my warlock parses the best in 20-30 second raid encounters.

My point about 15-20 second single group fights being that you can parse much better if you have a 15 second fight where you cast bolt of ice plus fisson and the mob is dead, rather than casting those two plus some less efficient spells.

FYI, as a tank I hate it when cowardly wizards numbing cold+kite

Suck it up and take it, I know sorcerers can take a couple hits before the tank gets it back. Root is a much better solution than snare.

methulah · 03-17-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mezelline

Eth,
If you want to parse well in single group scenarios, then its usually a bad idea to debuff, as mob life often won't last long enough to fill the debuff's duration. Of course everybody parses better in raid scenarios because you usually get good buffs and the mobs get debuffed a ton. But I would also say that my warlock parses the best in 20-30 second raid encounters.

I can't find where I said I debuff in heroic situations, but I don't unless something strange is going on, so I'm sorry if I did say that, I shouldn't post half-asleep.

[/quote]My point about 15-20 second single group fights being that you can parse much better if you have a 15 second fight where you cast bolt of ice plus fisson and the mob is dead, rather than casting those two plus some less efficient spells.[/quote]

Problem with that is that if the mob dies after you've spent most of the cast timer of fission just standing there casting fission, you've lost a fuckload of DPS. I know it's my fault for not being able to judge these things well enough, but I've had tonnes of time spent casting fission or BOI for nothing, because the mob dies just before the cast timer's done. Anyway, there isn't much difference between the single target efficiency of Fission and Ball of Magma.

[/quote]FYI, as a tank I hate it when cowardly wizards numbing cold+kite

Suck it up and take it, I know sorcerers can take a couple hits before the tank gets it back. Root is a much better solution than snare.[/quote]
It's pretty much impossible to keep a mob rooted in a group situation, and in any case, half the heroic mobs in the game are immune to roots so that we can't solo them so easily. However, I know what you mean, and I understand. I would never need to do things like that in a guild group, because I know it's unlikely that I'll die if I pull aggro, even on the harder names in this expansion. However, I don't trust pickup group tanks or healers to keep me alive, so I'd rather do this than die a lot. Dead equals not DPSing.

daray · 03-18-2008, 07:40 PM

Really, there isn't that much to dps'ing in a heroic / pickup group situation.

Usually, just a matter of throwing on icicles before the mob even gets to the group, and then dropping your biggest damage spells back to back. Yes you probably will end up with agro most of the time, unless you have a pally tanking, but with a competent healer you shouldn't find yourself dying all that much.

Zonewide parses for zones like COA and Vaults are dependent on group, but, for me, tend to range from 3.5 - 4k with crappy group setups, to 5.5k + in groups with favorable buffs.