Procing of White dragonscale cloack

Ailees · 07-24-2009, 06:44 AM

text says :
"On a successful hostile spell this spell has a chance to cast Draconic Storm on caster. Lasts for 15 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.0 times per minute."

I asked in channel what was the proc rate. Everyone told me it was twice a minute, was I too retarded to understand ? IMO a proc rate in delay cannot exists, as it MUST be a percentage (chance to proc) for each hit, average delay dependding then on how many castings you can do in a minute.

My idea was that the text means that
1/ you cast a spell
2/ there is a chance (what value ? dunno) to trigger Draconic Storm
3/ effect will last 15 sec.
4/ then the "trigger an average 2 times" can be totally false (and the longer the spell casting/recast is, the worst it will be)

TEST 1
chain casted SOLAR FLARE on a dummy Casting 1.15 recast 2.3 ; I go on casting till dumy dead

number of procs : 22
castings between effect : 303
total castings : 369 (proc rate approx. 6%)

effect can proc while it is already up (twice in my test) and can also not proc for 45 castings ! (average casting between 2 procs : 13, this is around 45 sec.)

45 sec without effect, 15 with it, this is more or less 1 proc each minute with a fast casting.
We are far form 30 sec each minute as I have been told.

TEST2 :

against groups of monks in desert of RO.
Glacial wind, chained with Firestorm. Eventually a 2d firestorm, and a high DD to kill the master.
average 32 hits before they are dead. (between 30 and 40 to be exact)
Draconic Storm does not proc for half of the groups.
(There is one big group with 25 monks if I remember well, proc always triggers, because 50 hits average to kill the whole group).

as always with big groups fights, procs are kings.

Sadari · 07-24-2009, 12:53 PM

Anytime you see a proc rate of 'X times per minute', I believe it makes the following assumptions:
- The base chance is computed based on a 3 second spell (no haste). In other words, a 3 second spell will proc an average of X times per minute
- actual chance goes up/down depending according to a simple formula based on casting time. Effectively, a 6 second spell will have a little more than twice the proc rate while a 1.5 second spell will have less than half the proc rate.
- +casting speed, +reuse speed, +recovery speed bonuses do not affect the above computation

If you need more information or want specific formulas, you'll need to search the boards.

Sadari
80 Illusionist

Pinski · 07-24-2009, 12:55 PM

Multiply by 5 to get proc chance on a 3s(base cast+ base recovery) spell. Then normalize to that.

Sadari · 07-24-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailees

text says :

TEST 1
chain casted SOLAR FLARE on a dummy Casting 1.15 recast 2.3 ; I go on casting till dumy dead

number of procs : 22
castings between effect : 303
total castings : 369 (proc rate approx. 6%)

That sounds about right. Remember that the proc chance is based on the spell casting time and it ignores reuse times. If you ignore reuse/recovery times, you can cast ~52 Solar Flares in a minute (60/1.15). Applying the 6% proc rate gives you just over 3 procs in a minute. Even adding an 0.4 recovery results in 2.3 procs. This implies you have some spell haste, but you're probably not maxxed out.

If you tried the same thing with a longer casting spell, expect the proc rate to go up.

Sadari
80 Illusionist

Ailees · 07-24-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadari

If you tried the same thing with a longer casting spell, expect the proc rate to go up....

If you need more information or want specific formulas, you'll need to search the boards.

I've been on both boards (soe and eq2) for 4 years ... and never saw any clear formula about that; NEVER.

Problem is to know how many spells you cast in a group/raid situation ? Fission is my longuest with 3.83 (when I am not grouped) and Ice comet III is 3.07 but magma chamber and ball of fire are under 2.
May be 3sec average is quite correct.
Then your idea is very convincing.
thanks for explanation.

I would like to test with a true situation, but it is hard, because proc does not appear in the log. If I ask my wife to look at my screen for 10 minutes and count, I guess I'll have some troubles ...

dakkota · 07-24-2009, 03:11 PM

Just out of wonder, what exactly are you trying to conclude? I am still kind of unsure of what your getting at.

Whether it procs accordingly to the rate it gives?

Dextera · 07-24-2009, 03:30 PM

I don't think Ailees realizes the process of normalization, or the ruleset that governs procs.

And since Sadari pretty much wrote out the correct answer, I won't repeat him. It's pretty simple to figure out proc rates are normalizing correctly just from looking at your parses for simple dmg procs.

+Cast Speed: 100%
Item Base PPM: 1.8ppm
Number of Procs: 65
Duration: 17m 14s

Theorycraft tells me I should hit a 3.6ppm for that duration.

65 procs in 17:14 = 3.77ppm

/GASP. For all those encounters, my proc rate still normalized?!

So yeah, Ailees, there is no grand discovery in these findings. And if you just don't understand mechanics, then hopefully all of this clears your picture.

Enuki · 07-24-2009, 04:45 PM

for once, Deus says something correct

iirc the proc rate formula is ACTUALLY on the wizzy guide...

I will even link it, next time when a thread says "PLESASE READ ME FIRST" do it :P

Quote:

(OPTION 7) PROCS (including Damage Procs)

All item procs are normalized. They are normalized to 3 seconds (2.5s casting + 0.5s recovery), or in the case of weapons, to a 3 second weapon delay. To simplify the wording, item effects are described as procing at x times per minute. An effect that is described as procing at 1.8 times per minute, for example, has a 9% chance of procing on a spell that takes 2.5s to cast (+ 0.5s recovery).

Proc chance modifiers, such as Luck of the Dirge (Dirge), Blessings (Templar) and Ancestry (Mystic), will increase your chance to proc your items. Propagation (Warlock) will only increase the proc chance on any spell-based procs (such as Aria). Note that Propagation was recently changed to no longer affect item proc rates.

Your chance to proc is actually calculated against your base casting times of your spells. Therefore, increasing your spell haste will increase your chance to proc even further. To illustrate, if you have spell haste capped you will see double the stated proc rate.

Damage procs can crit, and are affected by debuffs.

Also note, that item proc chances cap at double of their base value. So, to illustrate, a proc that has a base proc rate of 10% (or 2.0 times per minute), will cap at 20% (or 4.0 times per minute). This is obviously before (spell) haste is factored in.

Dextera · 07-24-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enuki

for once, Deus says something correct

You mispelled "Again," Enuki.

magekiadi · 07-27-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailees

but it is hard, because proc does not appear in the log.

It shows up in the log as "You feel power surge through you, while a fog settles upon your mind."

I use the following simple regex as a trigger in ACT to notify me by TTS anytime it procs:

.*?You feel power surge through you, while a fog settles upon your mind.*

--
Talvon Esan
80 Wizard of Lucan D'Lere