Raid Wizards and Manaburn - Page 2

SacDaddy · 05-29-2007, 05:12 PM

I did have fireshape and inferno surge 5 when i was spec'd pure Fire/ Ice trees EoF

ya its a DPS disapointment. waste of points

Hujul · 05-29-2007, 07:40 PM

Well I haven't beaten any Avatars/Contested Mayong, have everything else though. There are many named encounters though where I can effectively use MB. PHH can be MB'ed twice, Woushi, etc. Long encounters with a straight burn (no real jousting to gain power etc) make it a bit more difficult. With fast tanking pulling I'm always struggling for power. I should count how many manastones I go threw in EH.
Like I said previously, the question becomes how effective is the Fire Line on Avatars. Judging from some of the parses I've seen I would say it might be decent. Wizzies are likely to be fighting adds most of the time (from what I've seen) and adds usually seem to come in grps of 4 with some exceptions. So the AE factor is huge. Obviously IS/FG owns. But what about the fire line? Most of these adds seem to go down pretty quick.(within 20 secs).

Falco · 05-31-2007, 05:25 PM

I vote the wizard moderator delete all threads relating to manaburn

Illuminator · 05-31-2007, 05:39 PM

Come on, it'd be more fun to see this one argued out.

Hujul · 05-31-2007, 07:36 PM

Well I'm sure there's probably many wizzies like myself that don't really get a chance to raid Avatars but still enjoy hitting raid zones. That at least makes it a worthwhile topic when considering what to spec. Apart from long fights like Avatars/Mayong, MB imo is a worthy alternative.
As I said before the question quickly became how effective is the Fire Line for wizzies on Avatars/Mayong.
Its not an easy thing to quantify imo. The biggest benefits seem to be the power savings on spells like Incapacitate, Irradiate, and BoL. Slightly faster cast/reuse times are nice too. However I don't see anything special about FS/IS. Likely to be spamming IS/FG anyway.

Another consideration is the power drain on the Avatar Fights/Mayong. This is what I think makes the power savings in the fire line more valuable. Though in a recent Avatar attempt I found myself spamming ae spells far more.(on adds)
So these are some of the things that I'm trying to weigh. As the biggest benefit seems to be the power savings, I have to ask myself can it be handled with good gear, etc.

daray · 05-31-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hujul

The biggest benefits seem to be the power savings on spells like Incapacitate, Irradiate, and BoL. Slightly faster cast/reuse times are nice too. However I don't see anything special about FS/IS. Likely to be spamming IS/FG anyway.

Another consideration is the power drain on the Avatar Fights/Mayong. This is what I think makes the power savings in the fire line more valuable. Though in a recent Avatar attempt I found myself spamming ae spells far more.(on adds)

Actually, in response to your first point above, the main appeal of the fire line comes from the spell haste to your most frequently cast spells - the power saves on them would just be the bonus. If your gear is proc heavy (either damage or temporary buffs), you will see quite a noticeable additional dps boost on top of the raw dps you get just from casting those spell faster (since as has already been mentioned several times before, proc chances are calculated against the base casting times of those spells).

Now Fireshape and Inferno Surge enhancements are completely useless, but im not sure why people keep bringing this up as a justification for not taking the heat line - the rest of the heat line stands very well on its own merits.

Now moving onto your second point regarding the power line: as far as contested mayong and avatar fights go, I never cast my power conversion spells anyway, even if the fight goes on for 20+ mins. So saying that the power line (excl manaburn) is beneficial for extended fights isnt entirely true. I have enough power proc items that i equip for such extended fights that I can actually sustain my power at full or near full for the entire duration if needed (i usually dont put all of it on - try to find a balance). This in fact ties back into my first point above where hasting my most frequently cast spells is going to result in me procing my gear a lot more (and in the case of extended fights, that will be the power proc gear i am wearing).

daray · 06-01-2007, 01:14 AM

And the simple answer to the manaburn question is that there isnt one. It is not like KoS AAs where the choices are obvious. The benefit you get from manaburn will be largely dependent on how your raid operates.

To illustrate, at one end of the spectrum (with skill levels between wizards being equal) you have your raids that run with a lot of downtime between pulls and generally fight mobs that don't last longer than 4 or 5 minutes. If you are able to manaburn every or every other trash fight, then off course you will see huge gains from manaburn reflected in your zone parse. And the subsequent downtime again will mean that power management is of no concern. In fact, I remember doing a pickup Labs raid when i was playing around with manaburn, and the tank pulled so slowly that i was manaburning every second trash fight, as well as having fusion up for every fight - my zone parse came in at close to 4k.

And at the other end of the spectrum you have your raids that will chain pull whole zones with very minimal downtime and that regularly fight and kill contesteds that can be extended fights of 20+ mins. In this scenario, manaburn becomes largely useless, and you will see a much larger gain from being fully speced in the heat and cold lines for their sustained dps increase.

And then there will be a point somewhere in the middle where people might not see much difference from being speced either way. To decide whether manaburn is right for you, you need to decide which side your raids lie on. Specing out of manaburn resulted in a net 200-300dps increase for myself on the zone parses.

The above was in relation to equally skilled wizards operating under different raid scenarios. However, it may be worth noting that wizards who don't know how to maximise their dps / rotation may find a viable answer in specing for manaburn such that they have a one-button solution to boost their dps with a large hit. I recall seeing a wizard on a pickup raid manaburn on 45s - 1 min fights, and still only pull in the region of 2-2.2k dps on those fights, which seemed to indicate to me that his ability to achieve dps with his normal spell rotation was rather poor.

Arwenia · 06-01-2007, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daray

which seemed to indicate to me that his ability to achieve dps with his normal spell rotation was rather poor.

poor?

You mean not existing

Hujul · 06-01-2007, 07:57 AM

Screwed up the quote, this is from Daray:

Actually, in response to your first point above, the main appeal of the fire line comes from the spell haste to your most frequently cast spells - the power saves on them would just be the bonus. If your gear is proc heavy (either damage or temporary buffs), you will see quite a noticeable additional dps boost on top of the raw dps you get just from casting those spell faster (since as has already been mentioned several times before, proc chances are calculated against the base casting times of those spells).

This is a very good point and tbh was not something I considered. Thx for all the feedback.

Hujul · 06-01-2007, 09:12 AM

So was thinking a bit more on this point. Isn't spell haste capped at 50%? Just wondering how effective it is with things like TC, Robe of Al'Kabor, etc.