How well do you think this dkp system will go?

Felweniel · 06-16-2008, 11:26 AM

The guild that i'm in plans on using a dkp system for the masters that are in the guild bank. The dkp for this system is not earned on raids(because the guild still relys on pick up raids)...from what I understand it will be earned from donating masters...and maybe a few other items to the guild bank. This system hasn't been put in place as of yet, but in order to get 1 master spell from the guild bank(which will cost 40dkp) you have to deposit masters into the guild bank( a deposit of 1 master will earn you 20dkp).

Also in order to use this dkp system you will have to join whats called the "master share program" by joining this its mandatory that if you loot a master it has to go into guild bank for the share program. I personally don't have a problem with this simply because any master that i've looted thus far has always gone to fellow raider.

Another source for this share program is raids....example: The guild raids PR and on 2 of the mobs they turn off coin split before looting the chest. This money is being used for equiping guildmates and raid expenses....Altho we're only raiding PR and Shard of Hate as it is. Honestly I'm really not sure what to think of all this..anyone have any suggestions?

Cervanto · 06-16-2008, 12:17 PM

Using this system seems a little ridiculous in a casual guild...or any guild for that matter. Should be a 1 to 1 trade. Hell, if they're trying to outfit raiders, shouldn't be any trades at all, the master should go to the best choice.

If they are just setting up a clearinghouse for master spells, let the members sort that shit out themselves. Sounds like someone got bored and wanted a system or you have some butthurt Christ-like figure who has given away 1000 masters and never gets anything in return.

Fuck all this noise, free choice always rules. If people make poor free choices, deguild them and find people who make good free choices.

firamas · 06-16-2008, 01:18 PM

We handle masters in two ways:
1) Raid dropped books are opened up for DKP bids like any other item. If no one wants they go into guildbank temporarily, and then are eventually transcribed (we're on PvP) or sold. Most raid masters end up going for minimum bid.
2) Non-raid dropped books use a commission system. You can donate a book to the guildbank, people bid DKP on it like normal, and you get awarded half of the DKP from the winning bid. If there is no interest, the book is returned to you.

So far so good...

Crabbok · 06-16-2008, 01:27 PM

Alot of guilds encourage or force their members to deposit looted masters into the guild bank. It is your choice what guild you are in, so if you don't like it you can alwasy leave. Additionally, from your post, it seems the master deposit rule is opptional. If you don't want to get anything you don't have to give.

Seems fine to me, albeit slightly unbalanced.

Tesar · 06-16-2008, 03:37 PM

My best suggestion for you is /guildremove.

If I understand you right you could be doing a VoES run, loot a master you need for yourself, but instead of being able to scribe it, you'd still have to give it to the bank and then buy it back for twice the credit you would get for looting it. That's BS. Trade em 1 for 1, and if you put 1 in and don't have 1 to trade for then you get credit and you get dibs on the next one you need.

And the turning off coinsplit thing worries me alot. They say it's to gear up guildmates, pay raid expenses etc? Who's expenses exactly? Certainly not the guilds, the guild itself has no expenses relating to raiding. Who decides how that money is spent, and on who? It's the players responsibility to keep their toon up with gear/masters/pots/repair costs/etc. not the guilds. That's what coin/guild splits are there for. There is way too much room for abuse in a system like that. Someone is going to benefit/abuse it overly much and there will be resulting drama that may well implode the guild. And while when I happens I hope someone posts tons of SS and logs so we can see it and comment, I would get ahead of the curve and bail now.

Felweniel · 06-16-2008, 04:28 PM

Its just one masters that you don't need for your toon...I should have been more clear on that point.

I've had others to tell me to bail out now..I was told earlier that the coin split was for raid related expenses. I myself carry a fully equiped raid bag along with status items and another full set of armor so I have no guild provided raid expenses. They mentioned using the money to buy masters for guild members, but they aren't to that point yet.

Ariel · 06-16-2008, 04:47 PM

I was in a guild for a short while that said that they were going to collect the money from plat dropping mobs (ie, turn off the coin split) "to gear up raiders".

I disagreed with that, and ended up leaving the guild because they had a loot council - which always means only a select few people ever see any decent loot. In the case of your guild, it would mean that the coin and items banked would only go to those deemed worthy. Would you be one of those?

Even the best intentioned 'loot council' can't help but have favorites - and this one wasn't well intentioned at all. Although raiding is not where I earn most coin - it's still completely fair, especially in a guild that relies on pickups to raid, that you get to keep the coin for raid supplies (special food, poison, adornments) and especially Repairs. We all know that it's an exceptional pick up raid that doesn't wipe repeatedly.

If the DKP for this 'master share' program was 1 for 1 (ie, 1 master deposited gets you 40dkp..or enough to 'buy' a master you want), I'd feel a bit better about it. But since it's 2 for 1...eh. Don't like it.

I'm always leery of any loot 'share' program that actually really doesn't 'share'. I don't feel like farming my ass off to supply people that wouldn't do the same for me. ...which is sort of the definition of 'sharing'.

Pinski · 06-16-2008, 04:49 PM

I have a question, if you have to deposit 2 to get 1, wouldn't that leave a shit-ton of masters doing absolutely nothing in the guild bank?

Widem · 06-16-2008, 04:57 PM

A long time ago I was in a guild named Iniquity that had a master share program. It does work if its only a 1 in 1 out basis with priority going to the people with the most points. A cap is optional and has positive/negative consequences on both sides of the coin.

One thing thats a must is a database list of every spell that a member needs or would use for the program. B/c there are spells that just arent worth a fuck or people in the guild don't need that have absoultely no place in the program when points are awarded. Kinda like in t7 people farming the same shitty masters in SoS didnt even have the option to turn em in b/c no one needed them.

Melodias · 06-16-2008, 05:07 PM

I'll never see why these things always have to be so complicated. It should be this simple ....

A master drops in an instance ....if I need the master I keep it and scribe it. If not, it's given to a guildmate/fellow raider because when my fellow raiders are better than so am I, so I'm winning either way. If no guildmate needs it then it's mine to do with as I please.

Everyone has an opinion on coin split. There is no right answer, just what works for the guild. We turn off coin split every other raid to fund the guild bank. We have some amazing crafters who make all the pots, arrows, adornmants, etc. we need for the whole guild. The guild bank funds the crafters and the rest of us do the harvesting. It's simple and it works well.

Fel ...if you have any doubts about the trustworthyness of your guild leaders ....BAIL NOW!! That DKP system for maters is just too complicated to work.