Broomhilde

Fair enough. But I will ask one thing. Was this "disruptive presense" ever warned or informed of these issues prior to the boot? I ask this because for some reason, in EQ2, I saw a tremendous lack of communication constantly going on in guilds. If someone was a problem, 9 times out of 10 no one (including the gl's) would say anything directly to them. If someones a problem (or creating one) they need to be talked to. If the problem continues after efforts have been made then by all means do what you have to do, knowing that you made them understand that there is an issue.

I have mananged people for several years and in at least one case, one of my biggest "problems" ended up becoming one of my biggest sources of pride in my workplace. Why? Because I talked to them and let them know that there was an issue and that they had better straighten themselves out. Sometimes people just need a kick in the pants or a smack across the head to get them straight. Just food for thought. (btw if the issues were indeed discussed with this person, this point is mute ).

Cheers!

__________________
Alliance Priest~World of Warcraft

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness." ~ Mark Twain

Henladar Bloodheart

I think you are owe an explanation and your old guild is a bunch of spineless bastards for not giving you one. I said it... be sure to spam them until they give it to ya too!

Talinth

Few things. Yes, I know Malstorm IRL. Yes, I'm still in the guild that he was booted from. My views are split.

Is he abbrasive? Yes. Malstorm has a tendancy to want to do things only his way. The sad truth however is that his way usually is the best. Though true, not always.

Did the guild ever give him warning that his actions were disruptive? To my knowledge as a guildie, and his friend IRL I can say no. Though I did personally tell him a few times to tone it down a bit.

Was his booting unjustified? I'm not a leader of this guild. Sadly, they don't tell the membership ANYTHING. But I love them with my whole heart and wouldn't leave for anything. I trust that the judgement of my leadership was justified but sadly, they give us no facts to support this.

Malstorm is a great guy. A bit abbrasive but by far not the most abbrasive person I've ever met. He GAVE me 110pp so that I could become a T7 transmuter right after launch, with no expectations of anything in return. He's loyal, a dedicated raider, and AMAZINGLY good at his class. He just happens to be a dick from time to time. (Booze will do that to a person pretty quick).

As for the original question, does being 9th highest on DKP list, having put (in my opinion far more than 60 hours) into the guild raiding, and being a damn fine, loyal, stand up guy require some sort of compensation when you are kicked with very little explination? You're damn right it does. I can think of 10 people off the top of my head in that guild who have 5 or more adornments which were purchased by Mal's generosity (though he never mentioned his name, ever so humble).

In a perfect world, I say refund his DKP at a rate of 20gp each, and tell him he was disruptive (which he undoubtably was, though he probably didn't realize it), and wish him good luck in his future travels.

Disclaimer: These words were neither reviewed by Mals before I posted them, or are sanctioned by my guild. Crimson Stalkers REALLY are a great group of people. That's probably why he's so sad to have been booted. But my opinions do not reflect their own.

>Talinth Silveroak
>70 Templar of Crimson Stalkers
>70 Armorer/Transmuter of Crimson Stalkers
>Nektulos Server

Kurizo

That and 110p is not a rude gesture considering you're choosing pixels over friends.

Rlam

If you have the 9th highest on the DKP chart with only 60 hours of raid time... what compensation would u expect? either your guild just started raiding or it has the highest turnover rate ever... i get 60 hours of raid time in under 3 weeks and if thats the case for you then after 3 weeks ur guild doesnt owe u shit and just move on.

as for the guy that knows u in rl i hope you really arent friends because if somebody had kicked one of my rl friends out of the guild i would have gone with him/her no matter how much i loved the guild its a fucking video game and id rather be in a shitty guild in a video game than a shitbag to my friends.

Talinth

I provided him with two full sets of T7 fabled/legendary adornments. Retail cost well over the 110pp. His bruiser alt will be equally adorned, again for free, when he reaches 60.

He had far more than 60 hours. I suspect that's a rough estimate. It was 3 months of making every raid, usually 3-4 per week, 4-5 hours per raid. I'm to lazy to do the math. (EDIT: I did the math. Roughly 200 hours. Nothing major, but that's still a bit of time to loose)

Yes, he is my friend. In fact, he lives in my house. His computer was a birthday gift from me. I've known him longer than any other non-related human. Reasons I didn't leave with him...

1) He raids daily. Most of the guilds he can get into now, which suit his raid style, I cannot join. I never raid.

Actually, that's pretty much the only reason. That and he doesn't want to see me leave a place where I'm happy. He's a good friend like that. I'm just kind of mediocre. I'm the diet coke of friends.

Feel free and flame me. At least you give reasons why you think I'm a dickhead. Malstorm will never see such reasons from our guild. THAT, is what is depressing.

Malstorm

No I won’t forgive you. You don’t explain because you’re not in charge, you “can’t take the pressure of leading raids”, and the only person who can explain has the final word in everything. He’s king of the guild and only he brings on the fabled. No other contribution is worthy of acknowledgement unless he first approves it. Promotions are the only exception; those are based as blindly and emotionally as this banning was, and the only place that the leaders really make any decision without the express approval of the Lord of the raids. Is where it doesn’t matter because the promotions are based off someone going hyper drama on the guild, or giving lavishly, to the raid leader and friends, of course I’m sure you have specifics, you just decided to throw a load of generalized, BS in the direction of a thread YOU CAN’T LOCK!! I’m sure that bugs you since that’s what you and any other leaders would tend to do whenever the leadership/ good ‘ol boyz l337 club starts to look like scum. If it’s a leader or someone from the good old buys club, first Flame, then Rally, Finally if the offending party doesn’t submit, blacklist and lock the thread. You did this crap to me for 3 months and I do expect compensation for it. If you can argue to where I cost you anything at all please, do tell. However I must warn that specifics will be a requirement.


Right, but no one knows, and no one can explain…

Malstorm

From a random leader and live in girl friend
Yeah...perspective is a fun thing. Personally, I'm through. I'm just glad all this crap is done. I will tell you this, he's been causing so many problems for the past month or 2, that we were already discussing whether to put him on probation or boot him. When he logged onto vent and started yelling at *A_tank_01* in front of the entire raid, then the next night was completely uncooperative - that was it. He never recognized that there was a problem, other than that '*the raid leader* was out to get him'. What he doesn't understand is that it was a group decision - every single leader and officer had had enough.
Secondly they locked the thread two seconds after I posted what I posted.
Its tough to figure out who to believe as I'm sure you can understand. But one thing I do know is by locking out the thread so no one else can comment shows no one is allowed to voice their opinion. which pissed me off.
*Names have been edited out of document*

My reply:
The events she noted happened over the course of this weekend, really, perspective must be a very exact thing. Those times are exaggerated to say the least, and why were none of these problems addressed to the source?

I've already made my observations toward the leadership, I know who the "leadership" consist of. *The raid leader* wasn't out to get me, he was out to get fabled, and there's a whole slew of people under him, who can't outbid him, or set him back at all. Of course, *Raid leader*, *raid leaders co leader and live in girl friend*, and *Backstabber_01* are the only ones who count! That's the proximity thing I was talking about. They are all in contact with each other, and weather anyone will ever say it, that's papa *Raid leader*, and those are his girls. It doesn't take much more then a pack mentality to see how this type of social structure works. The Raid Leader is smart and he brings the fabled, so he is the true Don-Mega, and females all respond to that with loyalty. Damn, I must have just too much time on my hands to see these things.

I don't see how every single leader and officer can have something to do with it, since Luke's Internet was down that night... It would seem that it's now more of a hassle to clean up this mess, then to just sweep it under the carpet. Luke is a fair and easy going guy. However, he's not going to go all up in arms over something that the raid section (the part that brings loyalty and prestige to the guild) has decided that they don't want to deal with. It's not worth the fight. Rip someone off for almost 2 work weeks of time, and only that person is unhappy, or cause unrest in the guild. It's not a hard decision to make.

Yeah, locking threads is just one common display of power. I don't see why she doesn't unlock it, unless she has no real power. Then I can see a hierarchy forming, and being leader means nothing, unless you're the raid leader, or new main tank, as the case may be.
I didn't yell at *A_tank_01*, I told him I was late because of him. That is a crappy tank who invites people to instances that have already been started, and the only mob anyone is interested in is the first named, who's already been killed. Also, if someone is being uncooperative, you inform, then you warn, then you take action. You don't just hotheadedly take action. That's stupid.

Malstorm
*Names have been edited out of document*

Malstorm

Not mute at all, in fact that’s why this thread exist for everyone to see. I agree with you totally.

Metran

Malstorms before you joined the guild I was the raid leader for a year and a half, raiding 3-7 nights a week. I stepped down, because I had been doing it for so long and was drained on EQ2, the game was no longer fun. The same reason we had a large number of senior members leave, people who had been playing on average 5-6 hours a day for almost 2 years were no longer having fun with the game and felt it was time to look at other activities to pass the time.

Insofar as not being communicated with,
on 12/06 you were approached about being hateful towards another guildmember. A discussion you which the following was pointed out to you:
"It almost seems like you are just really, really, really unhappy with this guild. I'm honestly starting to wonder why you are still here if you are this dissatisfied with the guild, dkp, members, raiding, etc."

Throughout the month of December you ignored tells from several leaders, to the point where one of them had to ask in vent "Am I on ignore?" during a raid. The fact that you only choose to recognize the Raid leader as the only leader, doesn't mean it gives you the right to ignore the other leaders or your fellow guildmates for that matter.

01/05 you log into vent late for a raid and start attacking a fellow raider for an instance group which already had been partially completed, upset that you missed out on the first name. To the best of my knowledge you were in tells immediately after the incedent and simmered down for the night. All I can suggest the next time this happens is zone out instead of killing the named you weren't interested in, that way you won't be locked out for 18 hours, but I assume you know how lockouts work.

01/06 You're asked to do something in a raid, you say you won't do it. You are asked to do this in group chat, raid chat and on vent. You still say you won't do it. You and the raid leader exchange comments in tells for 15 minutes at which point you get booted from the raid.

After the raid on 01/06 probably more like 01/07 at this point, you are called into a vent channel to discuss why you were booted from raid. The discussion isn't going the way you like, so rather than sit there and take your lumps you decide "You are done with this conversation" and proceed to log off vent.

These are just the events that I am aware of Mals. You can't be booted from the guild unless I say so, perhaps you would like to blame the raid leader, but the truth be told is if I have a good enough reason to keep you in guild, then you better believe you will be in the guild. All you did in the month and a half that I was back was disrespect the leadership and fellow guildmates and then when push came to shove you decided to pout in a corner and not hear us. You forced our hand Mals when you opted to log out of vent and not listen to us anymore.

No offense, but I don't log on to play EQ2 to babysit individuals such as yourself. You want compensation for your time? Just like leading a guild isn't a paying job, neither is participating in raids. If you look at your EQ2 station players profile, you have 4 items which you are currently wearing that you acquired in your time with CS. They may not be the best gear, but that's what happens when you're part of a raid force which can have as many as 10 scouts on a given night and a guild who has seen more than its fair share of non-scout drops.

I only was informed of your case on 12/06 when I re-assumed my responsibilities as leader, so I can only speak of what I know since you had joined after I took my break. I do know however that the communication on 12/06 between you and the leadership was already tiring at that point. Perhaps they were too nice, in delicately pointing out that you appear to be unhappy in this guild. To me that's a clear sign that perhaps I need to re-evaluate the guild I am in or re-evaluate my behavior. One of the 2 has to change if someone has drawn the conclusion cited above.

I am sure there was more communication that I am not aware of. I am also sure you'll put your own spin on things, as people tend to do in situations they take personally. As far as I can see it from my point of view, we did what was right for the overall health of the guild and the feedback I've gotten to date has been positive.

Once again Mals, I wish you all the best in WON. I hope you find what you're looking for in that guild, they are a more dedicated raiding guild and killing harder content than we are. If it works out for you, you'll most likely be more decked out than the CS leadership you abhore so much.

Regards,
Minimet/Metran/Levon
co-leader of Crimson Stalkers-Nek