The NGD vs. Non-NGD thread

[LFG]

Hello:

I came home from work today and was disappointed to see a number of similar arguments between the same people, about basically the same issues, going on in various threads and derailing what I thought were important, noteworthy threads on this board.

I'm asking everyone with an opinion about the the NGD vs. Non-NGD drama to spew their venom in this thread instead.

This is a site where you can vent and express as much anger as you want, but arguing in multiple places about basically the same issues, between mostly the same people, constitutes prohibited spamming under the rules of this board.

I want people of every gaming interest to be comfortable posting here, to the extent they can take the heat. I honestly believe that people who see things differently must yell at each other first before they can possibly hope to coexist and find common ground.

I will not ban NGD people or anyone else from this site, but I will require everyone who uses this site to follow the housekeeping rules I've set against derailing topics.

So Please, try and express your hatred and contempt toward each other in this thread, rather than diluting multiple other threads on this board about the same issues.

BTW, the NGD vs. Non-NGD drama is more like a guild vs. guild dispute than a player vs. player dispute, hence my reason for starting this thread in the Guild forum.

Thank you for your cooperation.



Let it all out, go ahead and unleash here.

[Malachani]

But... I'm spent... I don't have anymore hate. I admit to having bottled up hatred for Radar since his bullshit mockery of my thread that took 2 extra days to delete after my thread was removed, but since unloading in the other thread, I feel much better and can now let that little part of me go.

I don't hate NGD. I never have. I think there's things said there that I don't understand and won't pretend to understand. But as long as they keep their nonsense to the threads made for that purpose, they can go be as stupid as they wanna be. Lord knows I can be pretty stupid sometimes too.

[Fumtik Muffinbane]

Originally Posted by Elanie

But... I'm spent... I don't have anymore hate. I admit to having bottled up hatred for Radar since his bullshit mockery of my thread that took 2 extra days to delete after my thread was removed, but since unloading in the other thread, I feel much better and can now let that little part of me go.

I don't hate NGD. I never have. I think there's things said there that I don't understand and won't pretend to understand. But as long as they keep their nonsense to the threads made for that purpose, they can go be as stupid as they wanna be. Lord knows I can be pretty stupid sometimes too.

Radar from M.A.S.H.? How can you possibly hate him? He's the token pudgy nerd and has that kooky sense of humor!

I mean seriously...

...how can you have any hatred towards him?

[Pronoia]

Truly venemous posts are spontaneous. They are made when the red msits descend as you read the vitriolic bile spewed forth by the complete fucking retard sitting in their parents basement in their fat pants. They are the response you make to show them you know that, yes, they were mothered by a certifiable crack head prostitute with the clap and their opinion counts for less than the chugnutts clinging to your arse hairs. In that respect, I'm not sure this are will get much use. Once the ping pong starts, it gets difficult to step back and allow rationality to return.

I'm hoping any more flak will die down more out of respect for what you are trying to achieve here LFG.



Pro.

[RadarX]

Originally Posted by Elanie

But... I'm spent... I don't have anymore hate. I admit to having bottled up hatred for Radar since his bullshit mockery of my thread that took 2 extra days to delete after my thread was removed, but since unloading in the other thread, I feel much better and can now let that little part of me go.

I don't hate NGD. I never have. I think there's things said there that I don't understand and won't pretend to understand. But as long as they keep their nonsense to the threads made for that purpose, they can go be as stupid as they wanna be. Lord knows I can be pretty stupid sometimes too.

*ahem*

I've made my amends but my thread was NOT bullshit, it was...well entertaining to myself. Selfish? Yes. Uncalled for? Most assuredly. Amsuing to some? Definetly. The fact that you even took it seriously...wait a second, they deleted my thread?! Well...probably better.

[RadarX]

Originally Posted by Pronoia

Truly venemous posts are spontaneous. They are made when the red msits descend as you read the vitriolic bile spewed forth by the complete fucking retard sitting in their parents basement in their fat pants. They are the response you make to show them you know that, yes, they were mothered by a certifiable crack head prostitute with the clap and their opinion counts for less than the chugnutts clinging to your arse hairs. In that respect, I'm not sure this are will get much use. Once the ping pong starts, it gets difficult to step back and allow rationality to return.

I'm hoping any more flak will die down more out of respect for what you are trying to achieve here LFG.



Pro.

I gotta admit... I have NEVER seen the word vitriolic and chugnutts in the same post as long as I've lived. You shouldn't stereotype though, some of the NGDers will suprise you.

I came in here thinking all of you were just a bunch of angry former EQ2 posters (and a couple of you actually are) with a dire need for rectal surgery to remove foreign objects, but some of you show intelligence and I can admit when I'm wrong.

[Crabbok]

NGD people have some kind of obsession with Pie. Pie sux.

[Nurta]

My turn to stir



Bah! I had this nice long and scathing reply but b/c of work and meetings and me being a doofus I lost it So instead the shorter version.

I'm an ass, I like drama, I will stir the pot every chance I get. I do it on message boards b/c it allows me to be someone I can't be in RL. It's fun, I enjoy it, and I love to laugh at people who take it too seriously.

I love this forum already! It's like a giant circle jerk full of angry little kids whinning about how they can't be the "cool" kid or had their lunch money taken! Well I don't have a dick but I love to watch (can we get some more male on male action too pls? that's hot) so I'm hoping for lots of excitement from you boys and girls now don't let me down! You shouldn't keep this place a secret really, invite more people. An orgy of whinners jerking would really make my days at work fly by!

Oh and btw, who are you all? You posted in NGD got laughed at and became bitter? I bet 90% of NGD doesn't even remember your petty-insignificant posts. I know I don't, b/c NGD is entertainment. It's fun, it's not serious, I don't remember what happens in there from day to day nor do I care. And if anyone does well, I guess then you're ones whom this reply is directed at We'll have lots of fun together!


Radar if you wear a hat like that for me I promise next time I'll use more lube hunny. God that's sexy.

Oh now for some sharing time, let's hear it I want to be a circle jerker too! "Heil Anarchy!"

[RadarX]

Originally Posted by LFG

This is the main one I copied my comments from above.

http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...opicID=3248668

I can appreciate if you don't understand why hardcore raiders and other like us felt forced away from eq2players.com. Many of us have explained this many times. This is a summary of how I perceive the situation:

1. A longstanding general rumor and suspicion that the mods on eq2players.com were some of the most hardcore NGD posters. It seems to me that at least half of the people listed in the first post of this thread are EQ2 friends who often posted in support of each other within the NGD section.

2. A longstanding belief among non-NGD posters that unless you were a regular in the NGD forum, you really couldn't post there, because when you tried, you got harrassed and spam-bumped away by NGD regulars, many of whom were also mods.

3. A longstanding belief that NGD posters received privileges that other posters on eq2players.com did not qualify for. You can't deny this. Many of the NGD posters had little perks like custom titles with unique colors. None of the people who posted as regulars elsewhere got benefits like that. This looked to us like pure favoritism, and extremely unfair.

4. A longstanding belief that NGD was "above the law", that it didn't have to live by the same rules as the rest of eq2players.com, and that the NGD regulars created and enforced their own arbitrary laws as mods against non-NGD posters. What I'm saying is that it definitely felt like NGD regulars were acting as mods and telling other people they could not do the things that those same mods were themselves doing as NGD posters within NGD.

5. A longstanding belief that none of the mods whom the non-NGD community despised most had any clue about raiding and the issues important to raiders, and that many of them didn't even play EQ2 frequently enough to have a level capped character. I'm sorry to put it this bluntly, but in the more raider oriented forums such as Items and Equipment, Combat Encounters, and Zones and Populations, It felt like kindergarten teachers were trying to enforce rules of conduct against professionals. In posts on serious raiding topics, we weren't permitted to tell posters who had no clue what they were talking exactly why that was. So players who had never played a character past level 30 were permitted to give extreme opinions on matters that affected raiders, but raiders couldn't laugh at them and tell them to shut the hell up because they had no clue what they were talking about. The mods didn't seem to understand raiding issues or even to be interested in them, yet they were telling us what we could and could not discuss about raiding issues. This was beyond frustrating and stupid to us.


If the people listed in the first post of this thread are mods as claimed, I guess I'm wondering why some of the most frequent posters and opinionated people on eq2players.com were given the right to make enforcement decisions against the rest of the player base. I gotta agree with some of the early things I've read in this post about that being a conflict of interest. If those people are mods, you can go through their player and mod posting history on eq2players.com and find examples where they were arguing against someone in a post and then logged onto their mod account to chastise and moderate the person they were arguing against. Does anyone believe that is impartial or fair?

I'm actually sick and tired of arguing about this. I personally don't feel the need to argue about this anymore, to sort out what is truth and what isn't, because I never plan to post on eq2players.com again unless I need tech support from an eq2 tech.

If anyone wants to discuss this matter for another ten or more pages, what I'm suggesting is that we use this http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=406 post instead, it is made expressly for that purpose. If you wanna just continue this post on forever, that's cool too, we can do that, I'm just asking that the argument be confined to a small number of individual posts rather than carried over into every post on this forum, because that will spoil the fun on this site for a lot of people and I don't want that to happen.

You are free to say anything you want here, and I won't edit you unless you violate the Site Rules linked in my sig file. I just again wanted to make that clear so you don't feel like you have less rights than me as a poster, even though I own this website.

I went ahead and pasted this so I could reply over here in the correct thread regarding it, because honestly that original thread was about an entirely different subject.

Do I understand your plight completely being comfortable in NGD? No, why would I? Do you understand how the NGD has worked over the last 18 months? I doubt it, and that's not an insult, that's just a statement of facts. I've got too much respect for some people to bullshit them, and while I disagree with things you say, I respect you. Plus I don't have the normal restrictions I have in the official forums.

1. Who cares who the mods are if they are doing the job? Hypothetically if you are correct in who the mods are...ok the are moderating the forums, so wouldn't people who are on the forums a lot be the people most likely to be able to moderate it? If they are around a lot anyways.... If they act professionaly as a moderator, when they are a moderator, I'm having a little trouble seeing issues. Now I have seen a some biased modding and believe me I've complained but you could select the most intelligent unbiased poster in the world and they would be an amazing mod all 4 hours a week. If what you say is true, they need people around 24/7.

2. I'll admit it can be hard to break into NGD if you don't understand what goes on. People can't expect to walk up to a group of other people and be accepted as a stranger. I wish I could tell you that it would be done. I personally try and be nice to people I don't recognize but people that post in an intelligent, non ranting manner are usually ok there.

3. Why would I deny it. This goes back to ummm they spend more time on the fourms than anyone else so why wouldn't they be given a little incentive for being around? It's a forum title... You don't see me coveting Khazan's 100% anti-dev do you? *shrug*

4. There was a self policing policy that was in affect for many many months. Most of you either don't remember or like to admit it, but NGD was a trashcan for buillshit whining about server downtime and customer service issues. The attitude is still there and I don't think they really have a mod that can properly handle NGD. It's supposed to be a fun place and no...it should be a little more relaxed because of that. Other areas of the forums are meant for feedback about game issues and derailments, flames, etc... create noise drowning that out. 90% of NGD *IS* noise.

5. I hate to make it like this but you know what? Raiding has nothing to do with modding a forum. If raiders (and yeah this is a blanket statement so don't get offended) could reduce the drama, stop getting so upset about things, and acting like a broken encounter will swallow Norrath up entirely maybe the mods wouldn't act like that. Broken stuff is valid. The method and drama a lot of raiders bring that to SOE's attention is childish and inmature. I read all over the forums, and you know I'm right about some of these posts. If you want to be called professionals, then all of you need to act like it (not pointing at you in particular by the way).

You shouldn't tell anyone to shut the hell up literally if they are wrong. You explain to them they are wrong within the RoC just like we have to do in NGD (and yeah we cross the line sometimes). Raiders tend to be very passionate about their subject and that boils over into anger which...well leads to the dark side. It has no place on those forums. I don't like raiding drama anymore than I like NGD drama.

I think the content of certain forums is a poor arguement for who should be a moderator. Should we get a crafter to moderate the crafting forum? How about a Templar for the Healer forums? It just seems going too far to me.

As I stated, I don't see it as a conflict of interest. The people that post a lot, know the forums better than others and would be more familiar with what is going too far and what isn't. And your example of them going in and playing mod in an arguement they are involved in? Clearly a conflict of interest and angers me greatly. I've seen Quassim lock a thread in the past to get that last word and sound tough so yeah it's pure bias. Who the moderators are seems to be of little consequence to me as long as they do their jobs correctly.

Wow that was lengthy...

[Malachani]

Originally Posted by RadarX

*ahem*

I've made my amends but my thread was NOT bullshit, it was...well entertaining to myself. Selfish? Yes. Uncalled for? Most assuredly. Amsuing to some? Definetly. The fact that you even took it seriously...wait a second, they deleted my thread?! Well...probably better.

Well I didn't take it seriously, because if I had, I would have responded rather scathingly at the time. Instead, because I was sincerely trying to "bridge the gap" between NGD regulars and non-NGD, I zipped my lip and reported that thread every time a new reply was posted (I know, I know, childish!) and I sent long passionate reports about just why that post sucked major ass.

Then i went to my PM's and sent long passionate PM's about hypocricy and all sorts of stuff, and then I went in game, and I bitched to my friends, and then I whined to Simon IRL about the whole thing. Then I called my friend who doesn't even play EQ2 anymore, and I complained to him too, cuz he TOTALLY didn't know what I was talking about, but that made him neutral, right? But he totally agreed with me, so that means I was right.

After all that, I went back and reported the thread again, and sent another long passionate PM to Raijinn, then I went back to the game and cried in 60-69 for people to fucking pay attention to me! I had been WRONGED!

But really.... I didn't take it seriously. :smiley-very-happy:

(P.S. Only 1/4 of what I said before is actually true, but I'll leave it up to you to decide which part is true!)