Veeshan's Peak - WTF - Page 10

Pinski · 12-11-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bramwell

If you are fighting this stuff I assume you have a decent offtank who could throw up reinforcement, immobility, wall of armor, tower of stone and maybe block and you can finish out the fight....

People raid with 2 guardians(well I guess some guilds do, but most don't, nor do they want to)? I mean, if you have a bruiser off-tank, you aren't going to kill shit when your MT dies. If you have an SK off-tank, well he'll live through the first "kill" shot after that, then die the next time. Oh, and let's not forget a big thing. So he takes 0 damage through the next 4 or 5 hits, after that he's going to die because of the same reason your MT died, except this time he's not going to have as much HP/buffs as the MT. Unless of course, as I said before you run 2 completely defensive MT groups.

keldo · 12-11-2007, 01:46 PM

I been pissed at how hard mobs hit in this game from the onset, it has always been too hard. EQ1 mobs could NEVER 1 round (that would be 2 or 4 attacks) a tank even with a flurry (extra attacks), and they were still hard as fuck.

Jousting, 1 shot AE, 1 shot melee, deathtouch like abilities: all retarded and completely anti progression as your gear simply cannot mitigate them. Jousting is the one that burns me the most - put tons of different resists in the game then make them all useless and force jousting, thankfully they are getting away from that.

Constant healing from healers is a far superior challenge. Seriously which is more difficult:

1. Knowing you can heal, never running out of power or waiting on recasts, being completely prepared, only to have your tank 1 or 2 shotted randomly with no chance to react.

2. Having to heal a consistent stream of damage while dealing with cures, power issues, and other aspects of the script at the same time.

The most fun I've had as a healer in this game is in the harder T5 bosses before tanks were fully geared. It was an attrition fight, could you kill the mob before you ran out of power (from healing not power drain bullshit)? These fights don't even really exist anymore, because damage is so spike oriented.

The entire design makes encounters way more difficult to design than they should be, and takes away a lot of creative things they could do as a result. Not to mention how difficult it makes to balance tank classes.

Pinski · 12-11-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keldo

Jousting, 1 shot AE, 1 shot melee, deathtouch like abilities: all retarded and completely anti progression as your gear simply cannot mitigate them. Jousting is the one that burns me the most - put tons of different resists in the game then make them all useless and force jousting, thankfully they are getting away from that.

Yah, they're getting away from that, and instead making it so you don't even need a healer for DPS groups.

keldo · 12-11-2007, 01:55 PM

That goes back to when they fucked up the cure system. DoTs in EQ1 didn't kill anyone if they were not sured in one millisecond like they are here, and there were no easily obtained cure items.

Create a system like that and it opens the door to an entire aspect of design that is lost in EQ2, debilitating AEs which will wear you down over time but not kill someone in 2 ticks.

Most difficult fights in EQ1 were difficult due to this exact factor. Melee slows, cast time increasers, things that fucked with aggro generation, the possibilities are endless. But in EQ2, anyone can cure any ailment on them in 1 second unless it kills them or prevents them from casting. That really limits design and removes an entire aspect of possible challenge.

Jaraxx · 12-11-2007, 02:05 PM

Personally I've accepted the fact that on average named fights I'm going to be dieing atleast twice if I have to tank. Trash mobs I will probably die at least once. However that's because we aren't even getting 5 priests on for this shit. I really don't think that once I have more priests on a raid I will be dieing all this much. I mean what the fuck are your tanks specced?

Guardian Sphere - Tower of Stone - Reflexs + Your two mitigation buffs do fucking help. Also have your fucking knights spec for divine aura so they can actually take hits. It really isn't that difficult.

To CL - we took 3 pulls on silverwing last night before we dropped them. I died atleast twice each fight - I also got charmed atleast twice each fight as well as being picked to click the statue. I mean if you think about it all you are really doing is preparing for the worst on every single encounter in this fucking expansion and when you have to constantly prepare for the worst and having to deal with that it no longer becomes that tough.

Monk hits Peel then Tsunami! I don't fucking know monks but you can make it work disso no doubt. It's not that tough.

Answer me this - How much fucking time does it take to go from your guardian being dead to be fully buffed and have agro again. The answer is less then 7 seconds. Are you telling me that your tanks can't hold off the mob for 7 seconds while your tank gets rebuffed and gets agro?

SEQUENCE!

TANK DIES

1. Cleric uses fast cast! Other warrior tank (assuming you have one) hits rescue and reflexs. Wow 12 seconds were he can't be hit by melee.

2. Dirge Rezzs Tank/re hate gains and the rest of group rebuffs him.

3. Guardian attacks - Everyone stops attacking - Dirges/coercer hit magnetic note/aggro snap whatever the fuck it's called - amnesia - boom tank has agro again - resume dps.

Now this works both ways. If you do this properly it might be considering annoying not an additional challenge. However if your position is "omg tank got one shotted we wipe" then you are really just fucking terrible. You have other fighters on the raid - fucking use them.

The only people that should be bitching about this is the fucking tanks who are actually dieing due to the repair costs. Everyone else should just shut the fuck up because if you don't suck only the tanks will be dieing.

CONCLUSION: Fixing mitigation curve or nerfing the mobs would just make these mobs easier then they already are which isn't necessary.

Should the mitigation curve be fixed? Fuck yes - but just realize the mobs will be even more of a push over. SoE should find alternative ways to bring challenge into these encounters - however hoping that they will is truly pathetic at this point as you know they won't be.

CARRY ON GOOD SIR - I'm tired of explaining this shit to you lazy motherfuckers and I will not be doing so again.

Jaraxx · 12-11-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

People raid with 2 guardians(well I guess some guilds do, but most don't, nor do they want to)? I mean, if you have a bruiser off-tank, you aren't going to kill shit when your MT dies. If you have an SK off-tank, well he'll live through the first "kill" shot after that, then die the next time. Oh, and let's not forget a big thing. So he takes 0 damage through the next 4 or 5 hits, after that he's going to die because of the same reason your MT died, except this time he's not going to have as much HP/buffs as the MT. Unless of course, as I said before you run 2 completely defensive MT groups.

Here are our amazing set ups. This is assuming everyone in Strike is actually on, which I have better chance of having sex with Jennifer Love Hewitt then this to actually happen.

Guardian Templar Defiler Dirge Coercer Swashbuckler

Guardian Templar Mystic Dirge Shadowknight

Paladin Ranger Illusionist Dirge Brigand Warden

Fury Wizard Wizard Warlock Troubador Illusionist

In no way are these set ups ideal or perfect in anyway but assuming the stars were aligned and everyone made it onto a raid this is what strike gets at our best. If this is a unrealistic set ups for most guilds to run then I don't know what the fuck to tell you then.

Jaraxx · 12-11-2007, 02:15 PM

Also take into the fact that we're actually fucking ourselves in the ass expansion with dps. Since most of our scouts are hitting if lucky 70% hit percentage and the mages are hititng in the 90's . Our dps suffered tremendously. Our healers since there is so few this makes shit even more difficult for us. The only thing you can really say is good about our set up is we have tanks who actually have defensive capability.

Vizion · 12-11-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaraxx

Personally I've accepted the fact that on average named fights I'm going to be dieing atleast twice if I have to tank. Trash mobs I will probably die at least once. However that's because we aren't even getting 5 priests on for this shit. I really don't think that once I have more priests on a raid I will be dieing all this much. I mean what the fuck are your tanks specced?

Guardian Sphere - Tower of Stone - Reflexs + Your two mitigation buffs do fucking help. Also have your fucking knights spec for divine aura so they can actually take hits. It really isn't that difficult.

To CL - we took 3 pulls on silverwing last night before we dropped them. I died atleast twice each fight - I also got charmed atleast twice each fight as well as being picked to click the statue. I mean if you think about it all you are really doing is preparing for the worst on every single encounter in this fucking expansion and when you have to constantly prepare for the worst and having to deal with that it no longer becomes that tough.

Monk hits Peel then Tsunami! I don't fucking know monks but you can make it work disso no doubt. It's not that tough.

Answer me this - How much fucking time does it take to go from your guardian being dead to be fully buffed and have agro again. The answer is less then 7 seconds. Are you telling me that your tanks can't hold off the mob for 7 seconds while your tank gets rebuffed and gets agro?

SEQUENCE!

TANK DIES

1. Cleric uses fast cast! Other warrior tank (assuming you have one) hits rescue and reflexs. Wow 12 seconds were he can't be hit by melee.

2. Dirge Rezzs Tank/re hate gains and the rest of group rebuffs him.

3. Guardian attacks - Everyone stops attacking - Dirges/coercer hit magnetic note/aggro snap whatever the fuck it's called - amnesia - boom tank has agro again - resume dps.

Now this works both ways. If you do this properly it might be considering annoying not an additional challenge. However if your position is "omg tank got one shotted we wipe" then you are really just fucking terrible. You have other fighters on the raid - fucking use them.

The only people that should be bitching about this is the fucking tanks who are actually dieing due to the repair costs. Everyone else should just shut the fuck up because if you don't suck only the tanks will be dieing.

CONCLUSION: Fixing mitigation curve or nerfing the mobs would just make these mobs easier then they already are which isn't necessary.

Should the mitigation curve be fixed? Fuck yes - but just realize the mobs will be even more of a push over. SoE should find alternative ways to bring challenge into these encounters - however hoping that they will is truly pathetic at this point as you know they won't be.

CARRY ON GOOD SIR - I'm tired of explaining this shit to you lazy motherfuckers and I will not be doing so again.

Nothing really needed explaining here, I think 9/10 posters on this thread have raided t4 and have experienced all of this.

EDIT: After reading your raiding setup, you would probably save yourself alot of deaths by putting a druid in your group, shouldnt be needing that much hate gain anyways and warden gives you more hate to begin with from weapon skills

Jaraxx · 12-11-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vizion

Nothing really needed explaining here, I think 9/10 posters on this thread have raided t4 and have experienced all of this.

EDIT: After reading your raiding setup, you would probably save yourself alot of deaths by putting a druid in your group, shouldnt be needing that much hate gain anyways and warden gives you more hate to begin with from weapon skills

I agree and we sometimes do. However, I don't like completing fucking over my paladin - without that mitigation buff in his group he very well might be one shotted. All my tanks end up tanking at some point.

Jaraxx · 12-11-2007, 02:34 PM

I'm thinking one day - maybe before the next expansion I will find a 7th healer who is actually worth a fuck and I can actually sometimes maybe roll regularly with three priests in my group!