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View Poll Results: Has Roger (The designer of new Avatars, Tangrin and Druusk) proven that he cannot create content
Yes 341 86.77%
No 52 13.23%
Voters: 393. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-02-2008, 09:33 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snark View Post
People aren't upset about having to click an idol
Actually, I think people are upset about having 4 people clicking idols, because it's boring and no fun!
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:34 AM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandreya View Post
Actually, I think people are upset about having 4 people clicking idols, because it's boring and no fun!
both tbh. although the time from active statues to raid being dead could do with being 1s longer to make it less frustrating if someone blinks.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:15 AM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldain View Post
(snip)A game dev in this position is supposed to be spanking you, not sucking you off. It's supposed to be irritating. He's supposed to find all the things that you thought you knew how to do and show you how you were wrong. (snip)
Mmmm, wrong. If it's nothing but irritating, it's not fun. If it's not fun, it's not worth paying for and the dev is failing at his job. I want to be challenged, not irritated by cheap bullshit (like making people spam the F key for a whole encounter) and luck factors playing a far greater role than player skill. This is the point your oh-so-clever mocking little quotes miss by a mile. More specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldain View Post
"Oh noes! I have to MOVE before casting my leetsauce dps abilities. My DPS is going to shit!"
Someone else already pointed out the actual complaint. Getting wiped for stuff you can't control = cheap bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldain View Post
"I'm not beating this encounter, it must be the dev's fault."
It's possible we could all be missing things that make some of the unbeaten encounters possible. But it's not like hardcore raiders don't strive to try everything and anything when presented with a puzzle. If it is broken, then it's especially irritating because we spent hours trying to "outsmart" something that wouldn't have worked no matter what we tried. Not exactly rewarding. A well designed encounter will be intuitive and beatable but not obvious and easy nor an impossible clusterfuck -- which is mostly what we've been getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldain View Post
"Oh my god, how DARE he put in encounter that requires that we limit DPS! I'm a DPS GOD! Nobody slows down my DPS!"
It's hard to DPS really well, especially as a team. It's incredibly easy to limit your DPS. This would be that cheap bullshit that offers zero challenge and serves only to irritate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldain View Post
My god, in order to beat this mob, I have to click this stupid idol. I HATE winning (blah blah blah, I think I'm so witty!)...
And just what amazing new territory does spamming the F key for 10 mins straight take us through that we should thank the dev for? I think we know how to click stuff, so he's not showing us squat. It's a legit complaint to say, "Hey, it's incredibly boring to stand in one place and hit one key for an entire encounter." If people got their jollies that way, they could roll a buffbot in a casual guild. Hmm.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:26 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

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Originally Posted by tracheaspider View Post
If people got their jollies that way, they could roll a buffbot in a casual guild. Hmm.
Owned.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:32 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateo View Post
Hey snark hope u get Below soon!!! Have to keep moving yet he randomly stuns people for about 15-20sec(dont recall exactly) UNCUREABLE!!!


GOOD TIMES!!!!
Mateo your memory on how long the stun was is about as good as when you think you've killed all the drakes and blindly run into that one that slipped your mind


Below is a piece of shit encounter though. Must keep moving + uncureable stuns = thank fucking god it depopped.

Haven't seen Hate yet but if he's charming 3-4 people at a time sounds like he's much worse then Tranq.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:41 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Mistmoore has seen both, and Hate is far worse.
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:34 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemist View Post
Mistmoore has seen both, and Hate is far worse.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:21 AM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Hate is bad...I'd say the worst is War, with Justice being a close second.

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Old 03-04-2008, 06:17 AM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

Got below... well, i dont know what is the trigger for the second raid-wide check buff but it stuns half raid the same moment the pet pulls the named. uncurable, 10 sec, half raid in that shit all the time. The man who makes these encounters has abcolutely no clue for what he is doing and it feels like he spent about 10 minutes of work on every of those encounters.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:40 PM  
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Default Re: Roger: It's time for you to step down.

I've been raiding in this game for three years now.

In my time I've seen some great encounters, some of them simple encounters and some I consider pretty complex. The ones that stand out are the Djinn Master, Pedestal of Sky(with a lethal supernova), the Three Princes, Chel'drak(for the time), Gardener Thirgen(without giant amounts of lag in place), and Venril Sathir. I'll even give runner-up awards to Wuoshi, Hoshkar, Xygoz and Silverwing. Anyone can find that these encounters have a few things in common, but the ones I'm aiming to point out are their amount of raid-participation and general lack of random-chance failures(VS' Fatalisis and Silverwing's tendency to one-shot tanks excluded).

I've also seen some pretty horrible encounters. Horrible encounters, however, are unlike great encounters in that usage of existing scripts or abilities cannot, so to speak, 'bring back the magic' of great encounters, but they can totally fuck up a whole tier of raiding if you do it incorrectly. We got that with Wrath of Fury in T5, Mem-blurs in T6, Charming & Delevelling in EoF, and now the 'Roaming Gnome Syndrome' in RoK. I see these ideas reused, and I see their wide-spread usage, and I see the general trend failing over and over through the expansions. And what comes of it? Why are the developers repeating the mistake of putting all of their eggs in one basket?

Before I started writing this post, I was ready to break out the torches and pitchforks for Roger. I'm sorry to say I voted yes, he should stand down. But not too sorry. The root of the problem, from what I can tell, isn't Roger. There's something that's been festering in the development process of EQ2 raiding for years that has retarded the forward progress of raiding. I don't know what's festering, but I know of something that can help:

Check-lists.

That's right. Simple check-lists. Something I know for a fact is not in widespread use among the raid-encounter developers.I'll even start one, and I encourage crowd participation:
  • *) Does the encounter have a degree of random-chance that can completely wipe the raid?
  • *) Does the encounter have a script or ability that's been used heavily this tier and/or expansion pack?
  • *) Is the encounter rooted?
    • *) Is it Draggable?
    • *) Is it Hook-Arrowable?
    • *) Is it Peelable?
  • *) Does the encounter punish people for doing their jobs?(See: Bonesnapper, Nexona)
  • *) Does the raid incur a penalty for not-moving from the encounter?
    • *) Does the encounter root?
    • *) Does the encounter stun?
  • *) Does the script bug out and cease working when a person dies and does not reengage the encounter?
    • *) Does the script bug out on a character feigned-death?
  • *) Does the encounter have adds?
    • *) Are the adds able to be engaged from outside the raid?
    • *) Do the adds path correctly?
    • *) Will the adds leash before the primary mob?
    • *) Do special and class abilities of adds interact with the primary mob's script?(See: the guardian with Pin on the Avatar of Growth fight, charming adds on Silverwing)
  • *) Does the encounter remove a person or persons from combat to do menial tasks for a length of time?
    • *) Is the encounter especially difficult?
      • *) Are people likely to be disaffected by said role in this encounter?
  • *) How do player pets interact with the script?
  • *) Does the encounter prevent a certain archetype or role from being effective?
    • *) Is this a recurring theme in the exp. / tier for the affected archetype / role?
  • *) Is the encounter somewhat straightforward?(See: The Lyceum of Abhorrence and the invisible time-limit for the doors)
  • *) Does the encounter knockback?
    • *) Is there an appropriate place in which to place the encounter in order to mitigate the knockback?(See: TNT Mayong)
That's 20 minutes' worth of check-list. There you go, give me a job while I still have some passion left for this game. I need the money.

Last edited by Taucher; 03-04-2008 at 04:50 PM.
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