Good Job Soe on SoH - Page 38

Pinski · 04-17-2008, 02:50 PM

You are wrong sir. Loot SHOULD ALWAYS be nerfed if the loot gained is out of line for progression.

You are a piss poor excuse for a player who thinks that everything should be easy. SoH is not "free" of knockback effects, in fact the first named has a damage shield that flings you half-way across the zone! Then we reach the last named, which has a fucking FEAR damage shield. Or how about that one with the Stoneskin Damage shield? That makes it fun, now I can't DPS, JOY! Then we hit up another named, oh look I'm doing damage to the mob, and it's draining all my power, GRATS!

Widem · 04-17-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virulence

Your comment about SOH cannibalizing ROK raid content is not really accurate:
What is now gone is the need to repeatedly RETURN to T1, Venril, OK or COD once your raid force is "mythicalized". Which is absolutely fine with me.

T4 vs. SoH is a non issue, yes SoH offers some top shelf items for SOME slots, but T4 is still required gear upgrades for progression in terms of both class armor patterns and other key items not to mention entrance to Trak.

This is the exact reason why people bitch about soloing in this game. Linear questlines with content that has no replay value. To you, all of T1-4 raiding is just a 1 time shot quest. Talk about a waste of dev time. Talk about a very piss poor marketing startegy. MMOs were designed exactly to get away from this kind of gameplay. A constantly growing world not an end where you acheive the quest and game over, but a constant struggle to acheive the hardest point in which you feel comfortable attaining.

The only legitimate argument for doing any T1-4 is just to get to trak which pretty much means 5 hours of raiding to get to a 7 minute encounter. Definately not worth it. All of VP is like killing trash that you can xmute for profit.

Bellabutton · 04-17-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Loot SHOULD ALWAYS be nerfed if the loot gained is out of line for progression.

While true, that does not appear to be the direction SOE has chosen lately. VP loot was upgraded instead of nerfing the solo/instanced loot that was causing the imbalance. Without the proliferation of the imbalanced loot many of the effects (even on the first two mobs) would have been much harder to overcome.

With the state of all loot being improperly balanced from solo/quest to Avatar drops, I really don't know how EQ2 can avoid a mechanics change if they do not fix it.

Pinski · 04-17-2008, 04:17 PM

So, we have to ugprade VP loot again, and also upgrade Maestro and Byzola loot, again?

Yah............ Vicious Cycle of continually upgrading VP loot isn't what the game needs. Newer loot should be toned down to fit into progression, not everything else should be upgraded because of new loot.

Trumak · 04-17-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virulence

No. Loot unless patently broken should never be nerfed secondary to the mechanics in which most raid loot is attributed to guild members based on a point system. Should the difficulty of the zone be substantially or marginally increased? Maybe. But I would exercise caution on opinions offered from those who may have spent the last few months farming T1-3 for loot upgrades which are now less appealing.

SOH (in its ENTIRETY) is no question in my mind more challenging than T1, which are nothing but glorified milk runs for loot, half of which is transmute fodder from day 1. Would also say, in its entirety, more challenging than Korsha.

SOH is more free of BS stun/stifle/knockback effects which can make raiding exquisitely unfun and therefore I like the zone.

There is, IMO, only one form of loot which actually should be nerfed, and that is mythical, which regardless of SOH drops is still OP as fuck compared to everything in the game.

Man are you stupid, stupid, stupid.

gungo · 04-17-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellabutton

While true, that does not appear to be the direction SOE has chosen lately. VP loot was upgraded instead of nerfing the solo/instanced loot that was causing the imbalance. Without the proliferation of the imbalanced loot many of the effects (even on the first two mobs) would have been much harder to overcome.

With the state of all loot being improperly balanced from solo/quest to Avatar drops, I really don't know how EQ2 can avoid a mechanics change if they do not fix it.

Think outside the box.
Not everything needs a diminishing returns curve.
At 100% melee (or spell or heal) crit
Then make items with legendary crit %
equals a % chance to legendary crit on a successful crit(ala 1.6x instead of 1.3x)

At 100% double atk
Then make items with triple atk
Equals a % chance to triple atk on a successful double atk.

etc etc
Make a new effect such as double up
that gives PC's a % chance to double cast a combat art

Raise the haste and dps cap at lvl 80 to 400 haste/dps curved to an actual 200 haste/dps

Soon you will see raid items w
25% melee crit,
15% double atk,
20 atk speed,
20 dps,
5% legendary crit,
5% triple atk,
strikethrough I (5% hit rate vs a lvl 80),

Under that system there is no need to constantly nerf items, but adjust npc's for each tier.

The alternative is a complete mechanic overhaul including diminishing returns on all effects in game.

Widem · 04-17-2008, 05:05 PM

Gungo I understand what your doing and from a progression point it makes sense. You understand that gear under the present combat system is pretty much stuck, which is why the SoH loot was designed in the fashion it was. I completely get that, I know you get that.

My problem is when does the increase in even more powerful effects just become silly?

When do you say no, what we really want is a correctly working mitigation and avoidance system, we want stats to matter b/c their are the most easy to scale, we want progression in procs that arent overpowered and for some reason HAVE to be in 10% bonus intervals. Why not 2% or 5%. Why is the only way for me to take less damage is by getting items with stoneskin? Why is the only way to increase my dps is to ensure i have a tripple attack?

As soon as you add these new bonuses its just a quick fix until next expansion when everything is capped and you need to come up with quad attack.

gungo · 04-17-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

Gungo I understand what your doing and from a progression point it makes sense. You understand that gear under the present combat system is pretty much stuck, which is why the SoH loot was designed in the fashion it was. I completely get that, I know you get that.

My problem is when does the increase in even more powerful effects just become silly?

When do you say no, what we really want is a correctly working mitigation and avoidance system, we want stats to matter b/c their are the most easy to scale, we want progression in procs that arent overpowered and for some reason HAVE to be in 10% bonus intervals. Why not 2% or 5%. Why is the only way for me to take less damage is by getting items with stoneskin? Why is the only way to increase my dps is to ensure i have a tripple attack?

As soon as you add these new bonuses its just a quick fix until next expansion when everything is capped and you need to come up with quad attack.

I get what you are saying.
But my question is.
What alternative is there other then a complete overhaul of mechanics and diminishing returns on every single effect.
Under the current system there is hardcaps on everything.

While crit<Legendary crit< Fabled crit and
atk< double atk< triple atk< quad atk
May just get silly eventually it is still very easy for soe to balance by increasing npc hitpoints for the increase in dps.

I don't see any alternative to this mess other then the suggestion above OR complete game mechanic overhauls every expansion. If you got one i will love to hear it.

and while the dps effect caps may not be the only mechanic issue this game has it certainly is one of the most imediate ones coming up shortly (next expansion at latest).

Really i never liked the stoneskin mechanic as a game effect. I much rather they made it block the next hit up to a set # and any additional damage would bleed through. Thus the obvious upgrade is not more stone skins but a higher # value.

The problem with 2% or 5% is no matter what value you assign eventually they will always reach thier cap.

Anyway what i suggested will never happen i would expect before the enxt expansion every single effect in game will get nerfed through a new diminishing return curve put in place for crits, DA, spell haste, etc etc. and then we will need to regear to get back to were we started.

Mendanbar · 04-17-2008, 06:09 PM

Which is all the more reason they should just nerf the gear across the board, including VP and avatar and etc gear. Keep the mechanics simple to understand. 200% crit equalling 100% crit is retarded. Just nerf people's current 100 to 50 or lower, and there's room to grow again.

I don't know why they grew the totals so fucking quickly anyway, it was kinda insane. Last expansion, if you had an item with 1 crit, it was sweet, and if it had 2-3 crit, it was amazing. Now it's 7+, wtf?

Edwin Ahe · 04-17-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

What alternative is there other then a complete overhaul of mechanics and diminishing returns on every single effect.

Just fuck diminishing returns. Linear progression FTW. Diminishing returns are killing any type of progression to begin with.
To clear t1 you need tank with N miti, and HP. To have chance of clearing VP you need tank with max miti, and 3x HP.
Take +heal/damage/ca-damage caps away, and you get nice progression in healer and DPS itemisation.
Make crits rare and harder to get (no more 100%crit AAs, and 100%crit procs).

This list goes on and on.