Originally Posted by Tater

LFG there will be no peace Until you make Hillbilly Deluxe blink red and white.

Originally Posted by Tater

What in the hell are those

Originally Posted by LFG

God bless you for saying this publicly, it clears up the matter for once and for all, and now forever gives peace and resolution to everyone who was involved in this drama.

What Dymus is saying, is that yes, it was an exploit, but no, it was not a material one.

So BOTH Gaige (and I) and Ishbu were correct in one way and incorrect in another way, and NOW I KNOW THAT BOTH TOLD THE TRUTH AT THE SAME TIME, EVEN THOUGH THAT DID NOT SEEM POSSIBLE THEN.

Ishbu told the truth when he said it was acceptable to yell the encounter because it was blocking EH progression in a way that wasn't intended. Gaige told the truth when he said yelling the encounter was an exploit. Both told the truth based on information from official sources - NOBODY LIED - this was just an extremely rare circumstance where it was possible to interpret the same information in diametrically opposite ways.

But now as everyone can see, you can get BOTH "it's an exploit" AND "it's ok to yell the Rumbler" out of the EXACT SAME INFORMATION. It did not seem possible for that information to be reconciled at the time this drama happened in December - it seemed as if only one thing or the other could be true. But as we see now, both could be true, and were true.

You hear what I just said Ishbu? You were half wrong, I was half wrong. I hope you can accept that and be at peace with it finally, I sure can.

What I've learned since this mess happened is that looking at things ONLY in black and white is not the best way to see the world. What I mean is, players see the word "exploit" and think of it only one way, as a very bad word that applies to hardcore cheaters, like item and plat dupers. But used as an absolute word, yes, it can be applied to yelling the Rumbler. And that is how I interepreted the situation on that day based on a masters in Philosophy. Technically, we exploited when we yelled the Rumbler. Did that make those who yelled the Rumbler the same as coin dupers?

No, what we committed was an immaterial, technical exploit, and something that could be better described as: "a justified deviation from the mechanic intended for the purpose of continuing to progress in the zone without undue burden."

The point being, not everything is black and white, there are infinite shades of gray in most situations.

Xelus is exactly right in what he summarized above. I'm just thrilled Dymus came out and confirmed that publicly, this means that everyone involved in this drama was both right and wrong at the same time, and now we can hopefully bury this situation and be at peace with it.

Hallefuckinglujah.

Originally Posted by DragonFyre

That's a very good story Xelus which makes a good analogy about the Rumbler, thank you.

I'm going to play magic 8 ball for a moment...

Was the rumbler broken?
No, not really.
Was the rumbler too difficult for the floor it's on?
Yes, certainly.
Should the rumbler have blocked Emerald Halls progression instead of the Tender?
No. But it did.
Was it an exploit to /yell the rumbler in order to kill the Tender and progress?
Technically, yes.
Did it really matter in the grand scheme of things?
No. Not really.

Would things have been done differently if all of this drama and wailing and gnashing of teeth could have been predicted and avoided?
Yes, most definitely.

So for those who said it was an exploit to /yell the rumbler. It was.

And for those who said that it was justified in order to get past something which was obviously out of synch with the intention of the zone. It was.

Just don't make exploiting a habit or assume that this is a license to do it because it can be done. Both the changes to /yelling in certain zones / encounters and the changes to the rumbler and Emerald Halls itself were done to address both sides of this issue. It's a moot point now and I'm sure there are other things to continue to debate and argue about. Or you can flame me for designing such a drama inducing situation and not changing it until the whole thing could be resolved at once. At least that will be more entertaining than seeing a poor horse beaten post-mortem.

Originally Posted by Gaige

Thanks for posting this. One of the rare situations where everyone was right (well except those saying the Rumbler was broken) and lots of shades of gray.

Guess we'll have to find something else to argue about now, but that shouldn't be too hard, haha.