boli

If you time the stun/stiffle chain right (the trick is you cast about 2s after the EMOTE, not 10% or anything) you don't need any AoE avoid as they never get a chance to fire the heal.

We tried several ways of doing this before we used the stun/stifle; its not a fluke or anything... just takes practice and then they suddenly become very easy.

One thing to do is kepe someone on "stun/stifle watch" as in they watch the effects piling on the mobs and annouce if any stun or stifle imunities pop up and if so annouce them to the raid. We found we had an inquis doing both by accident initially; and the next pull was flawless (after the inquis did a full review of all this spells).

Khalan

If Stun/Silencing isn't working then I will have to resort to a L2Play...

__________________

gungo

If you can't find a bard who can hit AOE when called boot them now. They are either afk, incompetent, or just suck. Seriously its one button and they get told when to hit it.
while the stun tactic works. I rather rely on an ability w 30 sec leeway then 1 person who may or may not lag out, LD, get reflected/resisted, mistime and/or have the entire raid get hit. Even if one bard fails you can still burn the mob down w 3 groups.

But the main thing here is not aoe or stuns. The op real issue is DPS. DPS is not just life burn mana burn and dispatching. There are several mitigation debuff items in game, use them. Get yoru guild and do the league quest. Get the BP for all your scouts in varsoons, buy a couple of key master spells. Then have your bards or druids aoe avoid, you can even try to time stun stifles for security. The end no problem.

The initial probel w stun stilfe was spell/zone lag initially. Instead of trying to refigure out stun stifles we just used aoe avoids and w a 30 sec duration you will never screw up.

Khalan

I agree, but same could be said about a chanter no?

__________________

Pinski

You are aware, that if you get reflected on while bladedance is up, you lose it. Not to mention you get hit by a DS and you lose it as well. Bladedancer is FAR less efficient than a properly timed stun+stifle combination. So basically, you are more than likely going to lose Bladedance which makes it very very useless against these mobs, which makes high-dps burn and stun+stifle combination far superior. Not to mention the wait period between 2 tries. Or the fact that you only need 1 enchanter, instead of a combination of 4 bard/swashbuckler/druid whom are spec'd that way(although the swash really should, after the update bards really shouldn't, and druids are kind of a toss-up). So which would you rather rely on, 1 character doing his job, or 4 and hope you don't get reflects/damage shields/etc? I'm taking the 1 character.

__________________
Cold war, cold war, cold war: I'm tired of your psychology
To bring us to our bended knees: And if we could only talk to you
I'm sure that we could make you see: 'Cause time has a way
Of bringing even bandmates down, down, down: Storm clouds are coming
I am bailing for some greener ground

I say I can be a big hit: Girls with Guns just can't miss
No matter what you say or do: I'm leaving 'cause of you

gungo

While that may be true during actually game play i have never had a DS break aoe avoid. I don't even know if this mob has a Dam shield if it does our druids are quick enough to dispell it. The fact is your MORE then likely post is bullshit considering alot of guilds still use use aoe avoid and it rarely if ever breaks.

Once again back to the reflection shit. Whats better 1 person in raid losing aoe avoid and getting hit or an enchanter getting reflected and the ENTIRE raid getting hit. Fatc is during actual gameplay aoe avoid is less likely to be fuked up by a semicompetent raid force. Still saying that Aoe avoid is a crutch many guilds use to easily defeat many encounter sin this game. The reason i say easier btw because it is more liekly to work. Hence it is better then Stun stilfe and relying on one person to not fuck the entire raid w a myriad of reasons.

The timers are a non issue most fights bladedance is the only 10 min reuse ability both druids and swashies are 5 min or less and offer a much larger leeway to not mistime and fuk up then relying on an enchater to not mistime, ld, lag out, sever lag, get resisted/reflected and screwing the entire raid. Unless of course your saying you never get resisted or reflected and always time it perfectly w/o any lag/ld/server lag everytime and can garantee this.

and the main reason aoe avoid is better you get 30 secs before the next aoe w aoe avoid. You get at max 12 extra secs using stifle stun. For a raid lacking dps which would be better?

gungo

Yes but a chnaters spell cna be resisted or reflected an aoe can't. As well, you dont need perfect timing for aoe avoid whereas an enchanter you do. Furthermore aoe avoid provides more time to burn and a chanter at most w perfect timing 12 secs.

Pinski

Yah, because spells are resisted a lot gungo. Wait a second, no they are barely ever resisted that late into a fight. And a reflect, oh wait, I didn't know True AoEs could be reflected if you also have a Coercer timing their stun at the same time. Shit!

__________________
Cold war, cold war, cold war: I'm tired of your psychology
To bring us to our bended knees: And if we could only talk to you
I'm sure that we could make you see: 'Cause time has a way
Of bringing even bandmates down, down, down: Storm clouds are coming
I am bailing for some greener ground

I say I can be a big hit: Girls with Guns just can't miss
No matter what you say or do: I'm leaving 'cause of you

gungo

Bottom line pinski this tactic is used regularly on every server w no problems. Furthermore it provides more time then stun/stifle does to burn the named. So for a person liek the OP who said they lack dps. Aoe avoid is better.

tracheaspider

How on earth does AE avoid provide more time than stun? Even after the stun and stifle have worn off, the mobs don't try to cast the AE for quite a long time. Whereas, with nothing but AE avoid, the mobs are going to heal up and then keep casting that AE over and over again should you fail to burn them down before recast is up. And if any avoid failed, you gotta do it with 3/4ths the raid force or less.

Perhaps if you can manage an absolutely gigantic burn and/or keep the MT from getting hit with the AE, then the avoid tactic works. Hoever, it's not possible, much less reliable, from the standpoint of a casual raidforce. Bottom line is, the stun tactic is easy as hell, works every time when you have the timing down, and doesn't rely on 3+ extra people not fucking up plus all the chronic nooblets coming up with 4x their normal DPS.

Remember, casual guilds don't kick people for sucking. On the other hand, if you're not in a casual guild and you believe the stun tactic doesn't work as well as AE avoid, maybe you need to boot your chanters. ;p