how to make raiding fun and challenging - Page 2

Kisy · 07-25-2007, 04:59 PM

I'm all for raid progression! No doubt! I think there should be some that from the start your casual raiders can do but also ones that the hardcore raids in the game can go to and be challenged.

Malcom · 07-25-2007, 05:20 PM

I realize there are tons of changes that could be made outside of zones to make them "harder". For example, required access, no menders, etc.

I was more interested in looking at possible solotions within the zones themselves as an alternative to kill 10000 mobs with a shit ton HP that do something annoying (dispell, reactive stun, etc). What can the dev team do in future instances that will beef up the FUN factor, and maybe increase the challenge? Get my drift?

I dont think disabling repairing would make instances a lot more fun per say, so i don't consider that a solution.

Ishbu · 07-25-2007, 05:43 PM

This game will never be challenging unless gear/raid kills actually makes your character superior to people who have not killed them. To do that there has to be rewards that actually make me a much better character, not 1-2% mathematically but just flat out more powerful to the point where the MT of my guild liternally cannot be touched by mobs that lesser guilds are having troubles with. If that doesnt happen, this game will never be challenging because the people who just arent as good as raiding will still have the required tools to kill the stuff that the hardcore raiders kill, despite missing all the little (and I mean very little) perks that those raiders get.

Snark · 07-25-2007, 05:51 PM

I don't foresee this game ever being challenging. Have they ever made something MORE challenging to balance? Fuck no.

I think the best encounter they have ever released is Chel'Drak(for the time). Of course even this fight is far from ideal.

Niber · 07-25-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snark

I don't foresee this game ever being challenging. Have they ever made something MORE challenging to balance? Fuck no.

I think the best encounter they have ever released is Chel'Drak(for the time). Of course even this fight is far from ideal.

ChelDrak, before the nerf.. was amazing. We spent countless hours working on him. He's not nearly as fun now though.

Malcom · 07-25-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

This game will never be challenging unless gear/raid kills actually makes your character superior to people who have not killed them. To do that there has to be rewards that actually make me a much better character, not 1-2% mathematically but just flat out more powerful to the point where the MT of my guild liternally cannot be touched by mobs that lesser guilds are having troubles with. If that doesnt happen, this game will never be challenging because the people who just arent as good as raiding will still have the required tools to kill the stuff that the hardcore raiders kill, despite missing all the little (and I mean very little) perks that those raiders get.

So do you want to see (yet another) combat revamp? Or would adding things to items like the ring in PPTR in t6? Also, you don't believe they can make fun and difficult scripts without implimenting some combat changes first?

kaif · 07-25-2007, 05:59 PM

Don't you guys get it? How many top end guilds are there? 10ish? With what an average of 30ish members? What company in their right mind are going to spend huge about of man hours and $$ to develop these high end zones for a population of 300 players? Even if you take all the other guilds that raid full time, that's what less then a 1000 players?

To me that's the biggest problem. There are not enugh of us.

Man0warr · 07-25-2007, 08:21 PM

It will never be to challenging, they can't design bosses based on one classes abilities, pretty much just have to design around our gear and how dps we can do. Because of the amount of classes, they can never make encounters defined by a certain class, because it would marginalize the other class roles - it's that exact reason they had to make Paladins and Shamans functionally the same in WoW, and gave them to both sides after TBC.

Rogoshen · 07-25-2007, 11:44 PM

ok, the complete and total removal of trash mobs which do not drop fabled loot.

case in point: those blood mother fuckers in IS with HP bordering upon infinite.

put a pair of them at the START of the zone, if you cant beat them, you go home and plan a courts raid or something. If you can beat a named in that zone, those things are not going to be a challenge - so why have them? hint: its to slow you down and take up your time.

Tenders, same thing. they are worse though, because they have 0 chance of wiping your raid. you could make the case for dropping seeds and such, but there are better ways to implement those items than tedious mobs which arbitrarily wipe your buffs.

So basically, make the boss mobs more challenging to fight (and no, be creative guys - simply doubling an encounters HP doesnt cut it.) wipe out the tedious, pointless mobs.

See, i'm starting to think that SOE just does not fucking get it. they put in the floor challenges in EH, tenders? still gotta fight them. (brownies, sure, they groped their way through fixing that.) Then they go and add in persistant zones. If they designed the raids properly, this wouldnt be necessary in the first place.

Morara · 07-26-2007, 12:12 AM

Trash mobs make sense, especially if they roam or respawn (or just exist in an open zone), but giving them tons of HP and abilities that are annoying, but not actually challenging seems dumb.