how to make raiding fun and challenging - Page 3

Pinski · 07-26-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogoshen

ok, the complete and total removal of trash mobs which do not drop fabled loot.

case in point: those blood mother fuckers in IS with HP bordering upon infinite.

put a pair of them at the START of the zone, if you cant beat them, you go home and plan a courts raid or something. If you can beat a named in that zone, those things are not going to be a challenge - so why have them? hint: its to slow you down and take up your time.

Tenders, same thing. they are worse though, because they have 0 chance of wiping your raid. you could make the case for dropping seeds and such, but there are better ways to implement those items than tedious mobs which arbitrarily wipe your buffs.

So basically, make the boss mobs more challenging to fight (and no, be creative guys - simply doubling an encounters HP doesnt cut it.) wipe out the tedious, pointless mobs.

See, i'm starting to think that SOE just does not fucking get it. they put in the floor challenges in EH, tenders? still gotta fight them. (brownies, sure, they groped their way through fixing that.) Then they go and add in persistant zones. If they designed the raids properly, this wouldnt be necessary in the first place.

So you're telling me that bosses don't have puny minions to waste our time? Isn't the point of trash to be the puny cheap-ass minions that prove no threat to you other than to wear you down before you get to the boss? Wait a second, no we just need to zone in kill every boss in a zone without a single piece of trash and zone out. Oh boy, that'll give us some "fun time" to figure out exact methods to parse as high as we can. Wait, no that means we won't have any trash to do that on. I may be in a small minority, but little amounts of trash is fun as long it dies fast and doesn't slow down the progression in a very noticeable way. I know the blood colossus do slow down the progression of the zone in a very noticeable way, so they are kind of bad, but the simple trash that dies in 40-60s, killing all that stuff is fun. Lyceum(which is basically a zone full of trash) is a fun as fuck zone, not because of the named, but the trash.

Diceeno · 07-26-2007, 01:46 AM

make zones not clearable with 2grps when they are flagged for 4 grps.
it should hurt the raid if a member goes ld.

Hadec · 07-26-2007, 01:49 AM

I think having trash drop fabled armor is dumb masters fine and even the cloaks in eh arent bad but in the kos days the fact that relic was the best piece in a lot of slots for a lot of classes and was a complete joke to get was retarded

Khalan · 07-26-2007, 02:21 AM

most of these ideas are retarded especially the Ops.

Ishbu is 100% correct in his assertion, repair kits, mendor bots and the item system will ensure that raids in this game are never truly hard. The gap between Casual and hardcore is so small that no encounter can be made truly hard without totally overpowering raiders vs normal content.

My only advice is to add in more scripted raids ala chel'drak, DMP, Pedestal that require coordination from all 24 people.

Malcom · 07-26-2007, 02:24 AM

I def agree that trash belongs in raid zones. I dont mind 1-3 annoying trash mobs per hour, but i think SoE continues to miss the mark.

I think a good example of a trash section is the 6 groups of master guardsmen/priestess/templars in the new raid zone. Its a slightly challenging fight until you get the hang of it, the fights dont last forever, and there isn't an endless number of groups.

The sense of accomplishment (albeit, small) is due to the fact that a section of mobs has been taken out, and NOT because we managed to kill some mobs without losing our minds!!

Malcom · 07-26-2007, 02:42 AM

Quote:

most of these ideas are retarded especially the Ops.

So having named encounters that can change abilities and scripts wouldn't make taking them down a little harder or fun? These mobs would require coordination from all 24 people since you don't know whats around the next corner.

I agree that zones are easier b/c of repairing. I agree that dimishing returns curve = diminishing value of tanking down harder named.

Khalan · 07-26-2007, 02:46 AM

No it wouldnt be fun. it would be annoying and frustrating as hell.

Difficulty is one thing, what your asking for is tedium. Plus guilds will just keep pulling or trying till they get a set of ezmode abilities.

MeridianR · 07-26-2007, 08:24 AM

Someone mentioned it, but Chel'drak before he became a shell of what he was, was a very well thought out encounter.

Something other then the close AE/stun/stifle, long range AE, cure, heroic adds that stun/stifle , shit that has been over used since matron.

Nakurus · 07-26-2007, 10:15 AM

Chel'drak used to be fun

Now it's zone in, 5 Minutes later. Zone out with alt loot!

xerxia · 07-26-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishbu

This game will never be challenging unless gear/raid kills actually makes your character superior to people who have not killed them. To do that there has to be rewards that actually make me a much better character, not 1-2% mathematically but just flat out more powerful to the point where the MT of my guild liternally cannot be touched by mobs that lesser guilds are having troubles with. If that doesnt happen, this game will never be challenging because the people who just arent as good as raiding will still have the required tools to kill the stuff that the hardcore raiders kill, despite missing all the little (and I mean very little) perks that those raiders get.

Maybe make gear that can't be wearable unless you killed the mob? People selling set gear to non-raiders is ridiculous. Alts, meh, because eventually people change mains or we need a certain class and can have alts in, but to sell fabled class sets to people who don't even need them, and on top of that for under 10p, is ridiculous and an insult to the people who put in the time to get it.